Author Topic: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles  (Read 211455 times)

Offline Lar

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #240 on: 04/20/2016 03:07 PM »
Which pair do you think are the two engines in a row still there (closest to the camera and the other stage)? If 3 and 4 then engine 1 (which you identified as one of the boostback engines) is also still there, no? Because the next engine up from 3 is 2, which is missing, and after that is 1, which is still there.

This why I think maybe there was some rotation because I rather think the theory about pulling the two boostback, the landing (1,5,9) and one near and one far makes a lot of sense...
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #241 on: 04/20/2016 03:10 PM »
Which pair do you think are the two engines in a row still there (closest to the camera and the other stage)? If 3 and 4 then engine 1 (which you identified as one of the boostback engines) is also still there, no? Because the next engine up from 3 is 2, which is missing, and after that is 1, which is still there.

This why I think maybe there was some rotation because I rather think the theory about pulling the two boostback, the landing (1,5,9) and one near and one far makes a lot of sense...

2 and 3 are the pair nearest us. 1,4,5, 7, and 9 are missing. 6 and 8 are still there on the far side.

Yes, there was some slight rotation clockwise between the two photos, maybe one-half-an-o'clock.  ;)
« Last Edit: 04/20/2016 03:13 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Doesitfloat

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #242 on: 04/20/2016 03:13 PM »
If OrbCom core is going to be a static display. Do they need to keep the flight engines on it for display or just mount the a set of bells when it get back to Hawthorne?  Keep the flight engines in serviceable condition. Use the dinged up bells from CRS8 Core for display.  Maybe mount the flight engines on another core. Get a price for engine only reuse, compared to full reuse. 

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #243 on: 04/20/2016 03:22 PM »
If OrbCom core is going to be a static display. Do they need to keep the flight engines on it for display or just mount the a set of bells when it get back to Hawthorne?  Keep the flight engines in serviceable condition. Use the dinged up bells from CRS8 Core for display.  Maybe mount the flight engines on another core. Get a price for engine only reuse, compared to full reuse.

They're pumping out engines so fast and relatively cheaply now, I doubt they'd bother to try to reuse those engines. Maybe instead they will test the heck out of them at McGregor, at which point they're useless except for static display, and put them back on the stage for display.
« Last Edit: 04/20/2016 03:23 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Lar

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #244 on: 04/20/2016 03:31 PM »
Which pair do you think are the two engines in a row still there (closest to the camera and the other stage)? If 3 and 4 then engine 1 (which you identified as one of the boostback engines) is also still there, no? Because the next engine up from 3 is 2, which is missing, and after that is 1, which is still there.

This why I think maybe there was some rotation because I rather think the theory about pulling the two boostback, the landing (1,5,9) and one near and one far makes a lot of sense...

2 and 3 are the pair nearest us. 1,4,5, 7, and 9 are missing. 6 and 8 are still there on the far side.

Yes, there was some slight rotation clockwise between the two photos, maybe one-half-an-o'clock.  ;)

OK I get it now, the two close together white marks are the from two different adjacent legs but your markings of "legs" in the diagram aren't those marks, but rather the midpoint between one pair of those marks and the next pair...

Thanks!
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Online launchwatcher

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #245 on: 04/20/2016 04:18 PM »
And now this pic from Elon shows those three engines (#1, #5, #9) missing, which tends to support the hypothesis that those are, in fact, the restartable engines. (The other missing engines are #4 and #7).
Perhaps those five are:
 - the restartable engines
 - the engine that showed thrust fluctuation in the post-flight burn
 - one of the other non-restarted engines that was ok in the post-flight burn.
and they want to use the "good" engine as a baseline for comparison for the one that didn't behave.

Offline mme

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #246 on: 04/20/2016 04:29 PM »
And now this pic from Elon shows those three engines (#1, #5, #9) missing, which tends to support the hypothesis that those are, in fact, the restartable engines. (The other missing engines are #4 and #7).
Perhaps those five are:
 - the restartable engines
 - the engine that showed thrust fluctuation in the post-flight burn
 - one of the other non-restarted engines that was ok in the post-flight burn.
and they want to use the "good" engine as a baseline for comparison for the one that didn't behave.
Or they could be the 5 they happen to have removed so far to analyze the heck out and gut before converting the rocket into lawn display.  My guess is that all the engines are coming off and we're looking at a work in progress.
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Offline Lar

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #247 on: 04/20/2016 05:22 PM »
Or they could be the 5 they happen to have removed so far to analyze the heck out and gut before converting the rocket into lawn display.  My guess is that all the engines are coming off and we're looking at a work in progress.
Wait, are you saying that maybe we're overanalysing based on incomplete data???  We never do that here. Never.
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Offline Saabstory88

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #248 on: 04/20/2016 05:58 PM »
Or they could be the 5 they happen to have removed so far to analyze the heck out and gut before converting the rocket into lawn display.  My guess is that all the engines are coming off and we're looking at a work in progress.

Exactly. What would be a reason for keeping flight capable hardware on a stage destined for trophy duty? Strip it down, and start getting recovered components back in the sky.

Offline The Roadie

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #249 on: 04/20/2016 06:36 PM »
The engine is out of the Grasshopper in McGregor, and it's just standing there giving shade to some weeds. IIRC it was an M1C, though. Certainly not a D.
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Offline dgates

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #250 on: 04/21/2016 12:15 AM »
This makes me wonder, do they roll the rocket, once in the hanger, on the fixture, essentially at will for easy access?
« Last Edit: 04/21/2016 12:15 AM by dgates »
Pilot

Offline dgates

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #251 on: 04/21/2016 12:19 AM »
Or they could be the 5 they happen to have removed so far to analyze the heck out and gut before converting the rocket into lawn display.  My guess is that all the engines are coming off and we're looking at a work in progress.
Wait, are you saying that maybe we're overanalysing based on incomplete data???  We never do that here. Never.

Also, I suspect the are taking flown hardware and getting various piece parts into a refurb cycle for reuse.  Bead blast, repainted things, remove electronics for flight requalification (firmware updates?), NDI, etc.
Pilot

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #252 on: 04/21/2016 12:26 AM »
I guess this thread includes any dock-side equipment.

One of the highest profile elements in this endeavor has been the crane of course.

Unless they bought it, they are long-term leasing it, and this can't be cheap.  It's also not ideal, since these cranes are not anchored to the ground - they are balancing acts.

Would a permanent crane make sense?

A perma-crane can be a simple fixed square frame, anchored to a foundation, with a trolley on top, that extends out over the water to half the barge's width.  It needs to have enough space inside the frame for the transporter to back into.   It would have a secondary winch to replace the small boom crane for rotating the stage.  It would have lighting protection.  It would have whatever support is need for operations they want to perform while still vertical - such as some fluid processing, leg folding, inspection... (like access gantries instead of boom man lifts and ladders)



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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #253 on: 04/21/2016 12:45 AM »
I would still like to hear from SpaceX the rational for removing the legs before transport. So if Chris is sending questions to them or if our SpaceX NSF friend here could let us know it would be greatly appreciated. Good luck with the refurbishment! :)
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Offline Saabstory88

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #254 on: 04/21/2016 12:50 AM »
I would still like to hear from SpaceX the rational for removing the legs before transport. So if Chris is sending questions to them or if our SpaceX NSF friend here could let us know it would be greatly appreciated. Good luck with the refurbishment! :)

They probably want the legs removed for inspection. Perhaps it is easier to remove the legs when vertical than trying to repack them, then later removing them at the hangar.

Offline AC in NC

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #255 on: 04/21/2016 02:13 AM »
I would still like to hear from SpaceX the rational for removing the legs before transport. So if Chris is sending questions to them or if our SpaceX NSF friend here could let us know it would be greatly appreciated. Good luck with the refurbishment! :)

They probably want the legs removed for inspection. Perhaps it is easier to remove the legs when vertical than trying to repack them, then later removing them at the hangar.

Agree 100%. 

I would further speculate that it might be a regular part of the turn-around process to swap legs to ensure a full trusted set are on every core (until they get more comfortable) and that the grid fins are an easy enough swap to perform simply for convenience.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #256 on: 04/21/2016 03:40 PM »
I would still like to hear from SpaceX the rational for removing the legs before transport. So if Chris is sending questions to them or if our SpaceX NSF friend here could let us know it would be greatly appreciated. Good luck with the refurbishment! :)

They probably want the legs removed for inspection. Perhaps it is easier to remove the legs when vertical than trying to repack them, then later removing them at the hangar.


Agree 100%. 

I would further speculate that it might be a regular part of the turn-around process to swap legs to ensure a full trusted set are on every core (until they get more comfortable) and that the grid fins are an easy enough swap to perform simply for convenience.
You both have good "speculative" reasons, I just want to hear from the proverbial "horse's mouth" at SpaceX...
« Last Edit: 04/21/2016 03:41 PM by Rocket Science »
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #257 on: 04/21/2016 04:26 PM »
I would still like to hear from SpaceX the rational for removing the legs before transport. So if Chris is sending questions to them or if our SpaceX NSF friend here could let us know it would be greatly appreciated. Good luck with the refurbishment! :)
I have heard that the current leg design has no way to collapse the legs once they have extended.

Future versions of the legs will rectify that, of course. I would guess the next flown mission will have the capacity to do that.

The old transportation fixtures also did not have space for the landing legs. The one used to move the CRS-8 stage to LC-39A now does.

Here's a side by side image for comparison (OG2 stage on the left, CRS-8 stage on the right):
http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CgcvT0CUUAAee00.jpg-large.jpg

I would look for the legs to be collapsed for transport on the next recovered stage.
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Offline tleski

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #258 on: 04/21/2016 05:52 PM »

Here's a side by side image for comparison (OG2 stage on the left, CRS-8 stage on the right):
http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CgcvT0CUUAAee00.jpg-large.jpg

I would look for the legs to be collapsed for transport on the next recovered stage.

Wrong comparison. The fixture for transport is different from the fixture/ring used to work on the stage. It was discussed in the reuse thread. See this post:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40086.msg1521369#msg1521369

Offline rocx

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #259 on: 04/21/2016 08:03 PM »
Future versions of the legs will rectify that, of course. I would guess the next flown mission will have the capacity to do that.

Why? As long as the rocket does not lift off while standing on its legs, there will always be engineers present when taking off or folding the legs. If re-folding adds weight, it would not be such a good thing to do.
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

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