Author Topic: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF  (Read 63870 times)

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #20 on: 12/26/2015 04:18 pm »
Well they are already doing the first fit check. Is the turn around pad area large enough?

Offline Dante80

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #21 on: 12/26/2015 05:07 pm »
OK oxygen tank and frost makes sense but the soot reappears near the top also where the tank still is. Unless the lox isn't sloshing that far up?

That soot is probably from the second stage engine start. Which also explains the reason its not that defined...(and also the fact that only part of the lox tank area in the middle remains soot free, since at SEP a good portion of the LOX is already expended, thus not cooling the upper lox tank walls - the rest soot covered part is actually the interstage).
« Last Edit: 12/26/2015 05:08 pm by Dante80 »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #22 on: 12/26/2015 05:12 pm »
Awesome. That stage has been to hell and back, a seasoned vehicle.
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Offline Dante80

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #23 on: 12/26/2015 05:13 pm »
Great photoshop skills. There is no way in hell Elon would leave the soot there though...the guy does not permit extending the SpaceX logo to the LOX tank so that it doesn't get obscured by ice, I don't think he'd ever want to launch a dirty looking rocket.  :D

Personally, I'd love to see it flying like that (IF of course soot doesn't affect performance or other attributes of the mission). It looks seasoned and meaning business. A real working vehicle, the Lada Niva of rocketry...C:
 
« Last Edit: 12/26/2015 05:14 pm by Dante80 »

Offline friendly3

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #24 on: 12/26/2015 05:51 pm »
Moved my post to a more appropriate thread.

Offline mme

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #25 on: 12/26/2015 10:07 pm »
OK oxygen tank and frost makes sense but the soot reappears near the top also where the tank still is. Unless the lox isn't sloshing that far up?

That soot is probably from the second stage engine start. Which also explains the reason its not that defined...(and also the fact that only part of the lox tank area in the middle remains soot free, since at SEP a good portion of the LOX is already expended, thus not cooling the upper lox tank walls - the rest soot covered part is actually the interstage).
Yup, it definitely gets "smoked" by the second stage:
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Online meekGee

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #26 on: 12/26/2015 10:21 pm »
OK oxygen tank and frost makes sense but the soot reappears near the top also where the tank still is. Unless the lox isn't sloshing that far up?

That soot is probably from the second stage engine start. Which also explains the reason its not that defined...(and also the fact that only part of the lox tank area in the middle remains soot free, since at SEP a good portion of the LOX is already expended, thus not cooling the upper lox tank walls - the rest soot covered part is actually the interstage).
Yup, it definitely gets "smoked" by the second stage:

Is there something sticking out of the first stage on the bottom? It can't be a grid fin, can it?

EDIT: I've just replayed the stage separation sequence over and over, and it's very hard to make heads and tails from it....   Things are happening very fast, I think I see the first stage attitude jets firing, but it could just be lens flare, I definitely can't tell which parts of the first stage are exposed to the flame, or home much sooty dark flame there is prior to the plume stabilizing.   

I wonder if the soot pattern on the first stage is symmetrical all around, or whether it has a preferential side.

Even a small angle would have caused the soot deposition on the first stage to be single sided, IF its source was the upper stage burn.
« Last Edit: 12/26/2015 10:30 pm by meekGee »
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Offline mme

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #27 on: 12/26/2015 10:34 pm »
...
Yup, it definitely gets "smoked" by the second stage:
Is there something sticking out of the first stage on the bottom? It can't be a grid fin, can it?
I don't think so, if you watch the video all sorts of "stuff" is streaking out past the bell before and during ignition.  I think it's just some flotsam being illuminated during ignition.

Edit: Corrected "streaking," but I think the nitrogen jet makes even more sense...
« Last Edit: 12/27/2015 01:44 am by mme »
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Offline MarsInMyLifetime

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #28 on: 12/26/2015 11:58 pm »
There are nitrogen gas RCS thrusters on the interstage; in the landing videos, you can see them venting after the landing. In the last barge landing, one of the sideways thrusters is clearly doing all it can to keep the stage upright, and the jet is coming from very nearly the same location and tangent as this apparition.
Don

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #29 on: 12/27/2015 12:23 am »
There are nitrogen gas RCS thrusters on the interstage; in the landing videos, you can see them venting after the landing. In the last barge landing, one of the sideways thrusters is clearly doing all it can to keep the stage upright, and the jet is coming from very nearly the same location and tangent as this apparition.

Yes, it's a nitrogen thruster plume.

Online meekGee

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #30 on: 12/27/2015 01:35 am »
There are nitrogen gas RCS thrusters on the interstage; in the landing videos, you can see them venting after the landing. In the last barge landing, one of the sideways thrusters is clearly doing all it can to keep the stage upright, and the jet is coming from very nearly the same location and tangent as this apparition.

Yes, it's a nitrogen thruster plume.

That's what I thought.  So the stage is already starting to want to turn.

If it turned even a degree, half of it would be "shaded" from the high velocity plume, and if that was the source of the soot, it'd be apparent.

We have a few views of the sooty stage.  Can we tell if it's sooty all around?
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Offline MarsInMyLifetime

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #31 on: 12/27/2015 03:57 am »
Considering that the staging exhaust is both rapidly expanding and also rapidly moving away from the stage, I think the likelihood is far greater that any soot we see anywhere on it was deposited during the many seconds that the stage was enveloped in exhaust while going bottom first into the reentry slipstream. LOX concentration near the drain end of its tank certainly stands out in my mind as the evident agent for the clean line on the cold end of the tank giving way to increased adhesion at the warmer end of the tank. The seaside photos of the crane-supported stage seem to show the same soot distribution we've seen in other pictures. I have a little concern for the exposed components inside the interstage that are washed by the startup exhaust from the second stage engine, but no doubt these are robustly attached and insulated.
Don

Offline MarsInMyLifetime

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #32 on: 12/27/2015 04:05 am »
The photo of the trucked stage clearly shows a flat cap over the end, to which the lifting struts are attached (not a flexible harness, it seems). This would seem to indicate a cap that can be settled onto the top and possibly latched in place remotely (yes, I'm still thinking about safety and necessity for sending workers up there, post-landing, for an operation that needs to be fast and repeatable for future workflows).
Don

Online meekGee

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #33 on: 12/27/2015 05:23 am »
The photo of the trucked stage clearly shows a flat cap over the end, to which the lifting struts are attached (not a flexible harness, it seems). This would seem to indicate a cap that can be settled onto the top and possibly latched in place remotely (yes, I'm still thinking about safety and necessity for sending workers up there, post-landing, for an operation that needs to be fast and repeatable for future workflows).

You'd trust the latch to lift the rocket without verifying?  Or do you think they had a remote camera or latch sensors on that lift ring?
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Online ugordan

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #34 on: 12/27/2015 11:37 am »
More from Shannon Gordon (The only one with footage it seems):



« Last Edit: 12/27/2015 01:57 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline dcporter

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #35 on: 12/27/2015 02:32 pm »
These videos are like the Star Wars TV spots. Not really much new or different in each one but I'm sure gonna watch it and feel a little giddy about the whole thing

Offline douglas100

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #36 on: 12/27/2015 03:25 pm »

You'd trust the latch to lift the rocket without verifying?  Or do you think they had a remote camera or latch sensors on that lift ring?

I would think latch sensors would we enough. But however they do it, it would have been well tested by F9R ops at McGregor.
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Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #37 on: 12/27/2015 03:37 pm »
The photo of the trucked stage clearly shows a flat cap over the end, to which the lifting struts are attached (not a flexible harness, it seems). This would seem to indicate a cap that can be settled onto the top and possibly latched in place remotely (yes, I'm still thinking about safety and necessity for sending workers up there, post-landing, for an operation that needs to be fast and repeatable for future workflows).

I've been up in manlifts thousands of times (literally).  Going up and attaching a lifting system is a 10 minute job, and it's pretty much perfectly safe.  It's done tens of thousands of times every day in construction.

Why make something harder than it has to be?

Offline douglas100

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #38 on: 12/27/2015 03:40 pm »

I've been up in manlifts thousands of times (literally).  Going up and attaching a lifting system is a 10 minute job, and it's pretty much perfectly safe.  It's done tens of thousands of times every day in construction.

Thanks for that.

Quote
Why make something harder than it has to be?

Indeed.
Douglas Clark

Offline Jakusb

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Re: Returned Falcon 9 OG2 First Stage Transported to 39A HIF
« Reply #39 on: 12/27/2015 04:08 pm »


I've been up in manlifts thousands of times (literally).  Going up and attaching a lifting system is a 10 minute job, and it's pretty much perfectly safe.  It's done tens of thousands of times every day in construction.

Thanks for that.

Quote
Why make something harder than it has to be?

Indeed.

Maybe people are wondering how one crane can do both...?
I guess this crane has two cables and can operate one cable with man lift independently from the cable that will be attached to the stage..?

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