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#2900 by JohnFornaro on 17 Feb, 2016 13:41
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I believe that it should be theoretically possible to convert energy to momentum.
It is found that the pulse modulation greatly improves the efficiency of conversion of electromagnetic energy into thrust.
The key principle to understand, in layman's terms, is that "they" hope to convert electrical energy to controllable forward momentum.
There's no such topic as this on this forum. -
#2901 by SeeShells on 17 Feb, 2016 13:51
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CONGRATULATIONS to NSF user and contributor to the EM Drive thread "WarpTech" Todd Desiato
Just now catching up on all that I missed. Caught the silly flu and it put me into bed for a almost a week. Up and around but still a little weak. Don't even think I have time to write and reply about all the things talked about here over the last few days. My goodness what a prolific well rounded sharp and great group to be part of.
whose article THE ELECTROMAGNETIC QUANTUM VACUUM WARP DRIVE, has now been accepted for publication in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society !!!
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272093277_THE_ELECTROMAGNETIC_QUANTUM_VACUUM_WARP_DRIVE
JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY TBD · APRIL 2016
First published in 1934, the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society (JBIS) was the first to describe many aspects of space travel.
It is now produced as a 72 page volume every alternate month. JBIS features the work of individual space organisations, companies, universities and space projects, and areas of space science and space technology.
Editorial and advisory board:
http://www.jbis.org.uk/editors.php
Wonderful News Todd! Good for you!
Shell
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#2902 by rfmwguy on 17 Feb, 2016 14:44
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Before I forget Doc, you might be pleased to learn NSF-1701A will have 0.125 thick endplates.
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#2903 by Rodal on 17 Feb, 2016 14:50
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Before I forget Doc, you might be pleased to learn NSF-1701A will have 0.125 thick endplates.
I presume that the dimensions 0.125 thick endplates is in inches?
What is the thickness of the conical walls?
What is the material of the conical walls and the endplates?
Are the conical walls going to be made without holes?
Are you sealing the conical walls the endplates? if so, how?
Thanks in advance for any information -
#2904 by rfmwguy on 17 Feb, 2016 15:02
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Before I forget Doc, you might be pleased to learn NSF-1701A will have 0.125 thick endplates.
I presume that the dimensions 0.125 thick endplates is in inches? Yes
What is the thickness of the conical walls? 0.022 in
What is the material of the conical walls and the endplates? 110 solid copper
Are the conical walls going to be made without holes? Yes
Are you sealing the conical walls the endplates? if so, how? Yes, engraving circular channel, about 0.025 inches depth, setting endplate on hotplate, reflowing silver solder and formed conical sidewalls into channel.
Thanks in advance for any information -
#2905 by lmbfan on 17 Feb, 2016 15:42
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Hello,
Just introducing myself to the forum, and trying to get used to the strange features of the NSF message editor.
I've been lurking for quite a while - I read all of Thread 6, but haven't gone back any further.
As a Mechanical Engineer specializing in control algorithms and physics-based simulation, I may be able to offer some assistance on topics relevant to EMDrive - especially with respect to thermal effects, cooling, or writing/modifying simulation codes in C++, C, or Matlab/Simulink. Finally, I may have some mechanisms to get access to ANSYS CFX and computation time as long as we are last in the scheduler - I can inquire if there is interest.
Yeah, my most recent patent doesn't make thrust either - it just makes a heat pump work better:
Receiver Fill Valve and Control Method
Here's more info on me courtesy of my
LinkedIn Profile.
Best wishes to all,
masterharper1082
Welcome. I'm curious, when you say you can help with thermal effects and cooling, does this mean Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)? There was some discussion earlier about running simulations that can estimate order of magnitude force from thermal effects, including convection and turbulence, for rfmwguy's experiment. I bet other experimenters would also appreciate modeling of these forces via CFD for their setups. In fact, I'm surprised that no one else has asked this question. -
#2906 by Rodal on 17 Feb, 2016 15:46
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<<does this mean Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)>>Hello,
Just introducing myself to the forum, and trying to get used to the strange features of the NSF message editor. I've been lurking for quite a while - I read all of Thread 6, but haven't gone back any further.
As a Mechanical Engineer specializing in control algorithms and physics-based simulation, I may be able to offer some assistance on topics relevant to EMDrive - especially with respect to thermal effects, cooling, or writing/modifying simulation codes in C++, C, or Matlab/Simulink. Finally, I may have some mechanisms to get access to ANSYS CFX and computation time as long as we are last in the scheduler - I can inquire if there is interest.
Yeah, my most recent patent doesn't make thrust either - it just makes a heat pump work better:
Receiver Fill Valve and Control Method
Here's more info on me courtesy of my
LinkedIn Profile.
Best wishes to all,
masterharper1082
Welcome. I'm curious, when you say you can help with thermal effects and cooling, does this mean Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)? There was some discussion earlier about running simulations that can estimate order of magnitude force from thermal effects, including convection and turbulence, for rfmwguy's experiment. I bet other experimenters would also appreciate modeling of these forces via CFD for their setups. In fact, I'm surprised that no one else has asked this question.
Yes, that's what he means, as he stated:QuoteI may have some mechanisms to get access to ANSYS CFX and computation time as long as we are last in the scheduler
as ANSYS CFX is a high-performance computational fluid dynamics (CFD) software tool
for example:
http://resource.ansys.com/staticassets/ANSYS/staticassets/resourcelibrary/presentation/cosimulation-thermal-mgmt-vehic-dynamic.pdf
Not clear to me whether he has access to the whole ANSYS suite to model coupling and multiphysics (ANSYS can also model the electromagnetic solution), or just has access to ANSYS CFX, not clear the level of experience and ease of running the ANSYS suite, including pre and post processing, and most important the level of access to computational power computing time to enable a realistic model of transient thermal natural convection, induction heating by the magnetic field, thermal expansion etc.
Such a model "ain’t bean-bag": the ANSYS modeler would need to be made available to him/her a level of detailed information on the experiments that I have not seen published yet, and would have to have a large amount of personal time to pre-process, run and post-process such a model
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#2907 by X_RaY on 17 Feb, 2016 19:09
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Interesting. In Shawyers explanation an "initial velocity" is needed to produce any thrust.
Good news, Dr. Trunev responded to an email regarding the availability of an English translation of his papers and kindly responded.QuoteThat's why Alexander Trunev invokes General Relativity and Yang Mills field in order to justify the EM Drive as an open system so that the force is non-zero. In essence Trunev, Minotti and White all invoke the Quantum Vacuum and General Relativity to justify the non-zero net force. They all agree that under Maxwell's equations the EM Drive would experience no anomalous force/power exceeding the one for a photon rocket.
Keeping in mind this is preliminary, and we have an uncertain translation of Trunev's paper...
Are Minotti's and Trunev's theories compatible? The 'thicker skin' test for Minotti's theory has been brought up now and again. (Something our DIY crowd should look into.) Would this test also be a way of investigating Trunev's theory?
Also, are the theories of Minotti and Trunev compatible with the 'bigger is better' frustum concept?
Is the 'Not-so-sure-of-it' theory compatible with those of Minotti and Trunev?
"thank you for your interest in my article GENERAL RELATIVITY AND THEORY OF ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIVE published on http://ej.kubagro.ru/2015/10/pdf/61.pdf. I recommend also to read the second article on this subject THEORY OF ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIVE WITH ELEMENTARY PARTICLES CURRENT AND VACUUM POLARIZATION on http://ej.kubagro.ru/2016/01/pdf/80.pdf
I will prepare an English translation of these two articles and publish in the next issue of the magazine in the form of an article with the addition of new results."
Thank you,
Alexander Trunev
That's going to make TT smile a bit.
" It is found that the pulse modulation greatly improves the efficiency of conversion of electromagnetic energy into thrust. "
I am ´relative´ confused because of an initial velocity is given all the time. The earth rotates and is traveling around the sun, the sun system travels around the center of the milky way and our galaxy moves rapidly into the direction of the great attractor and so forth. So this point of view is only useful in our reference frame relative to the exterior of the cavity i.e. in relation to the gravity/quantum fields nearby.
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#2908 by rfmwguy on 17 Feb, 2016 19:20
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"Initial velocity" ... I don't think anyone here subscribes to this for the reasons you just mentioned. Shawyer is apparently speaking of velocity in reference to the planet, thereby insinuating the effect is working with an earth field (such as gravity), thereby it is useless in space, thereby no spaceflight, thereby no EMDrive forum
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#2909 by X_RaY on 17 Feb, 2016 19:31
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"Initial velocity" ... I don't think anyone here subscribes to this for the reasons you just mentioned. Shawyer is apparently speaking of velocity in reference to the planet, thereby insinuating the effect is working with an earth field (such as gravity), thereby it is useless in space, thereby no spaceflight, thereby no EMDrive forum
Yeah, just random thoughts.. The effects of the SRT & ART may be very tricky, but part ot the puzzle, you know.
EDIT:
...thereby no EMDrive forum...
??
No! We are here to find out what happens and why these microwave cavities seems to produce thrust*.
*And we all hope it is the case they generate thrust anyway and this is not related to other well known effects. Lets find out. -
#2910 by Rodal on 17 Feb, 2016 19:42
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"Initial velocity" ... I don't think anyone here subscribes to this for the reasons you just mentioned. Shawyer is apparently speaking of velocity in reference to the planet, thereby insinuating the effect is working with an earth field (such as gravity), thereby it is useless in space, thereby no spaceflight, thereby no EMDrive forum
Well, I have been among the first, and one of the foremost critics of TheTraveller's hypothesis (attributed to Shawyer "in absentia") that the EM Drive needs some "physical motivation" to get going, but since TT is not here at the moment, I feel compelled to act as TT's advocate in this occasion and point out that TheTraveller was referring to initial vibration and not strictly initial velocity.
A vibration involves acceleration (that's why accelerometers were one of the earliest ways to measure vibrations and they are still used for that purpose). Acceleration involves non-inertial, privileged frames: if you put some scientists inside a box in space they can measure whether they are experiencing acceleration while as you say velocity is relative. (*)
Initial acceleration of the EM Drive could be defended from the point of view that whatever physical mechanism is involved in the EM Drive, if the anomalous force is not an experimental artifact, for the power levels being involved in the present experiments the forces involved are way too small and that some initial acceleration is needed to best overcome extrinsic issues (like static friction being larger than kinematic friction, etc.) or inherent physical issues (negative energy-mass being involved).
So, although TheTraveller never specified the level of acceleration or vibration needed to best "motivate the EM Drive" he did state that he was referring to vibration, and hence initial acceleration.
__________
(*) Also in a curved spacetime all frames are non-inertial. -
#2911 by mfck on 17 Feb, 2016 19:51
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I would like to note here, that SpaceX has a solid CFD team with own developed computational solution. They might be interested.
<<does this mean Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)>>Hello,
Just introducing myself to the forum, and trying to get used to the strange features of the NSF message editor. I've been lurking for quite a while - I read all of Thread 6, but haven't gone back any further.
As a Mechanical Engineer specializing in control algorithms and physics-based simulation, I may be able to offer some assistance on topics relevant to EMDrive - especially with respect to thermal effects, cooling, or writing/modifying simulation codes in C++, C, or Matlab/Simulink. Finally, I may have some mechanisms to get access to ANSYS CFX and computation time as long as we are last in the scheduler - I can inquire if there is interest.
Yeah, my most recent patent doesn't make thrust either - it just makes a heat pump work better:
Receiver Fill Valve and Control Method
Here's more info on me courtesy of my
LinkedIn Profile.
Best wishes to all,
masterharper1082
Welcome. I'm curious, when you say you can help with thermal effects and cooling, does this mean Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)? There was some discussion earlier about running simulations that can estimate order of magnitude force from thermal effects, including convection and turbulence, for rfmwguy's experiment. I bet other experimenters would also appreciate modeling of these forces via CFD for their setups. In fact, I'm surprised that no one else has asked this question.
Yes, that's what he means, as he stated:QuoteI may have some mechanisms to get access to ANSYS CFX and computation time as long as we are last in the scheduler
as ANSYS CFX is a high-performance computational fluid dynamics (CFD) software tool
for example:
http://resource.ansys.com/staticassets/ANSYS/staticassets/resourcelibrary/presentation/cosimulation-thermal-mgmt-vehic-dynamic.pdf
Not clear to me whether he has access to the whole ANSYS suite to model coupling and multiphysics (ANSYS can also model the electromagnetic solution), or just has access to ANSYS CFX, not clear the level of experience and ease of running the ANSYS suite, including pre and post processing, and most important the level of access to computational power computing time to enable a realistic model of transient thermal natural convection, induction heating by the magnetic field, thermal expansion etc.
Such a model "ain’t bean-bag": the ANSYS modeler would need to be made available to him/her a level of detailed information on the experiments that I have not seen published yet, and would have to have a large amount of personal time to pre-process, run and post-process such a model -
#2912 by X_RaY on 17 Feb, 2016 19:51
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Do you refer that maybe some kind of kinetic harmonic oscillation is needed as an initial condition for the thrust?"Initial velocity" ... I don't think anyone here subscribes to this for the reasons you just mentioned. Shawyer is apparently speaking of velocity in reference to the planet, thereby insinuating the effect is working with an earth field (such as gravity), thereby it is useless in space, thereby no spaceflight, thereby no EMDrive forum
Well, I have been among the first, and one of the foremost critics of TheTraveller's hypothesis (attributed to Shawyer "in absentia") that the EM Drive needs some "physical motivation" to get going, but since TT is not here at the moment, I feel compelled to act as TT's advocate in this occasion and point out that TheTraveller was referring to initial vibration and not strictly initial velocity.
A vibration involves acceleration (that's why accelerometers were one of the earliest ways to measure vibrations and they are still used for that purpose). Acceleration involves non-inertial, privileged frames: if you put some scientists inside a box in space they can measure whether they are experiencing acceleration while as you say velocity is relative.
Initial acceleration of the EM Drive could be defended from the point of view that whatever physical mechanism is involved in the EM Drive, if the anomalous force is not an experimental artifact, for the power levels being involved in the present experiments the forces involved are way too small and that some initial acceleration is needed to best overcome extrinsic issues (like static friction being larger than kinematic friction, etc.) or inherent physical issues (negative energy-mass being involved).
So, although TheTraveller never specified the level of acceleration or vibration needed to best "motivate the EM Drive" he did state that he was referring to vibration, and hence initial acceleration. -
#2913 by Rodal on 17 Feb, 2016 19:56
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...
For specifics one must ask TheTraveller
Do you refer to some kind of harmonic oscillator as an initial condition for the thrust?
I was never quite clear what he had in mind: is it a level of initial torque? as if to overcome some initial forces like static friction or yield points?
Example: even a conventional ion engine is best used in space and not good to get into orbit (due to the very low thrust force of an ion engine).
Force --> acceleration
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#2914 by X_RaY on 17 Feb, 2016 20:03
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Yes. We will hope he is back soon!
Maybe he can explain what's meaning in detail (in his view). -
#2915 by Rodal on 17 Feb, 2016 20:17
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...
I very much doubt that SpaceX would use their human and computational capabilities to do such modeling and freely discuss it in the public domain in a public forum, where such information would be accessible to competing businesses and foreign powers; they naturally would be compelled to keep such information proprietary for intellectual capital protection purposes as they are a private enterprise.
I would like to note here, that SpaceX has a solid CFD team with own developed computational solution. They might be interested. -
#2916 by X_RaY on 17 Feb, 2016 20:28
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I'm afraid you are right on that....
I very much doubt that SpaceX would use their human and computational capabilities to do such modeling and freely discuss it in the public domain in a public forum, where such information would be accessible to competing businesses and foreign powers; they naturally would be compelled to keep such information proprietary for intellectual capital protection purposes as they are a private enterprise.
I would like to note here, that SpaceX has a solid CFD team with own developed computational solution. They might be interested.
Under the line it would be very expensive for a company what we are trying to do here!
Only to try it.
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#2917 by CW on 17 Feb, 2016 20:30
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"Initial velocity" ... I don't think anyone here subscribes to this for the reasons you just mentioned. Shawyer is apparently speaking of velocity in reference to the planet, thereby insinuating the effect is working with an earth field (such as gravity), thereby it is useless in space, thereby no spaceflight, thereby no EMDrive forum
Well, I have been among the first, and one of the foremost critics of TheTraveller's hypothesis (attributed to Shawyer "in absentia") that the EM Drive needs some "physical motivation" to get going, but since TT is not here at the moment, I feel compelled to act as TT's advocate in this occasion and point out that TheTraveller was referring to initial vibration and not strictly initial velocity.
A vibration involves acceleration (that's why accelerometers were one of the earliest ways to measure vibrations and they are still used for that purpose). Acceleration involves non-inertial, privileged frames: if you put some scientists inside a box in space they can measure whether they are experiencing acceleration while as you say velocity is relative. (*)
Initial acceleration of the EM Drive could be defended from the point of view that whatever physical mechanism is involved in the EM Drive, if the anomalous force is not an experimental artifact, for the power levels being involved in the present experiments the forces involved are way too small and that some initial acceleration is needed to best overcome extrinsic issues (like static friction being larger than kinematic friction, etc.) or inherent physical issues (negative energy-mass being involved).
So, although TheTraveller never specified the level of acceleration or vibration needed to best "motivate the EM Drive" he did state that he was referring to vibration, and hence initial acceleration.
__________
(*) Also in a curved spacetime all frames are non-inertial.
And since all of space is permeated by gravity fields of the universe's surrounding matter, which are by definition curvatures of space and their related accelerating effects on any matter, there is no such thing as an inertial frame in the real world. Hence all arguments based on inertial frames (= all accelerations are exactly zero) fly out of the window, strictly speaking. Just my 2 cents.
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#2918 by mfck on 17 Feb, 2016 20:52
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I'm afraid you are right on that....
I very much doubt that SpaceX would use their human and computational capabilities to do such modeling and freely discuss it in the public domain in a public forum, where such information would be accessible to competing businesses and foreign powers; they naturally would be compelled to keep such information proprietary for intellectual capital protection purposes as they are a private enterprise.
I would like to note here, that SpaceX has a solid CFD team with own developed computational solution. They might be interested.
Under the line it would be very expensive for a company what we are trying to do here!
Only to try it.
SpaceX is more than a commercial enterprise and Musk is not your average CEO of one. Try to present to him. You loose nothing, gentlemen
Just sayin...
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#2919 by Bob Woods on 17 Feb, 2016 21:09
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Do you refer that maybe some kind of kinetic harmonic oscillation is needed as an initial condition for the thrust?
I've been lurking for quite a while - I read all of Thread 6, but haven't gone back any further.
?? 
I was never quite clear what he had in mind: is it a level of initial torque? as if to overcome some initial forces like static friction or yield points?
