Author Topic: Blue Origin - New Shepard second developmental test flight and landing  (Read 92131 times)

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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I would have thought that to be the case, however, I made that choice based on the feed line labeling available in the first flight video. The LOX F/D line seems to be on the bottom of the vehicle, as you can clearly see the aft fin.

Just because the LOX feedline is at the bottom doesn't mean the LOX tank is also at the bottom. Falcon IX also has the feedlines at the bottom. In this case the LOX feedline would go into the pipe that leads from the LOX tank to the engines.

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The line which separates from the top of the stage appears to have a higher volume, which lead me to believe that this is the LH2 fill line. This is why I guessed at this configuration.

OK, that makes sense. This might be the LOX vent line though.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Saabstory88

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OK, that makes sense. This might be the LOX vent line though.


Are there any tell-tale signs of which kind of lines these may be from the images post-umbilical separation? I see the 4 vane aperture on the top tank port. Is that indicative of a particular kind of function?

Offline Prober

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Blue just released some new videos.....maybe some NSF folks in the video ;)


Jeff Bezos just posted this video of 'what 400 very happy rocket scientists look like' after successfully landing their spacecraft
http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-posts-video-of-blue-origin-scientists-celebrating-2015-12

2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Prober

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to add a personal note ...I'm feeling it :D
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline sciencebro

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In Bezos we trust.

That video was awesome to see. I'd imagine it will be just as exciting during their first relight and second landing!

Offline Jim

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I would have thought that to be the case, however, I made that choice based on the feed line labeling available in the first flight video. The LOX F/D line seems to be on the bottom of the vehicle, as you can clearly see the aft fin.

All boosters/first stages that use LOX have the F/D on the bottom of the vehicle where is interfaces with the vehicle's propulsion system.   There is no need to put it up on the tanks and use an umbilical tower.  So, your conclusions are not based on relevant data.

Online Saabstory88

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I would have thought that to be the case, however, I made that choice based on the feed line labeling available in the first flight video. The LOX F/D line seems to be on the bottom of the vehicle, as you can clearly see the aft fin.

All boosters/first stages that use LOX have the F/D on the bottom of the vehicle where is interfaces with the vehicle's propulsion system.   There is no need to put it up on the tanks and use an umbilical tower.  So, your conclusions are not based on relevant data.

Thanks Jim! So the top umbilical is a vent line? LOX on top then?

When we see the LOX on bottom configuration such as in the Saturn S-II, S-IVB, and Centaur, is there another reason that it's done that way?

Offline ethan829


I would have thought that to be the case, however, I made that choice based on the feed line labeling available in the first flight video. The LOX F/D line seems to be on the bottom of the vehicle, as you can clearly see the aft fin.

All boosters/first stages that use LOX have the F/D on the bottom of the vehicle where is interfaces with the vehicle's propulsion system.   There is no need to put it up on the tanks and use an umbilical tower.  So, your conclusions are not based on relevant data.

Thanks Jim! So the top umbilical is a vent line? LOX on top then?

When we see the LOX on bottom configuration such as in the Saturn S-II, S-IVB, and Centaur, is there another reason that it's done that way?


Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the denser fluid goes on the bottom. For RP-1/LOX rockets, that's the RP-1. For LH2/LOX rockets it's the liquid oxygen.

Ignore me...
« Last Edit: 12/05/2015 05:49 PM by ethan829 »

Online AnalogMan

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I would have thought that to be the case, however, I made that choice based on the feed line labeling available in the first flight video. The LOX F/D line seems to be on the bottom of the vehicle, as you can clearly see the aft fin.

All boosters/first stages that use LOX have the F/D on the bottom of the vehicle where is interfaces with the vehicle's propulsion system.   There is no need to put it up on the tanks and use an umbilical tower.  So, your conclusions are not based on relevant data.

Thanks Jim! So the top umbilical is a vent line? LOX on top then?

When we see the LOX on bottom configuration such as in the Saturn S-II, S-IVB, and Centaur, is there another reason that it's done that way?


Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the denser fluid goes on the bottom. For RP-1/LOX rockets, that's the RP-1. For LH2/LOX rockets it's the liquid oxygen.

So thats Shuttle and SLS that got it wrong  ;)

Offline pippin

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Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the denser fluid goes on the bottom. For RP-1/LOX rockets, that's the RP-1. For LH2/LOX rockets it's the liquid oxygen.

For what reason? Flight stability would want the denser fluid towards the front because you are inherently stable if the center of pressure is behind the center of gravity.

Now, as someone pointed out before New Shepard flies both ways but since it probably doesn't matter with almost empty tanks and all the air brakes I'd still think the LOX tank is probably the forward one.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the denser fluid goes on the bottom. For RP-1/LOX rockets, that's the RP-1. For LH2/LOX rockets it's the liquid oxygen.

Its not always obvious which propellant goes on top. LOX (1.149 kg/L) is denser than RP-1 (0.8 kg/L). For LOX with RP-1 or LH2, LOX is usually at the top for the first stage. For kerosene with High Test Peroxide (HTP or 85% hydrogen peroxide), the kero tank is top, even though kero is less dense than HTP. The reason is the HTP/Kero volume ratio, which is about four to one. The smaller kero tank is top to keep the centre of gravity as far forward as possible. See the Black Arrow.

http://www.spaceuk.org/ba/siddeley.htm
« Last Edit: 12/05/2015 03:50 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline ethan829

Now, I'm not an engineer, but I think that the denser fluid goes on the bottom. For RP-1/LOX rockets, that's the RP-1. For LH2/LOX rockets it's the liquid oxygen.

Its not always obvious which propellant goes on top. LOX (1.149 kg/L) is denser than RP-1 (0.8 kg/L). For LOX with RP-1 or LH2, LOX is usually at the top for the first stage. For kerosene with High Test Peroxide (HTP or 85% hydrogen peroxide), the kero tank is top, even though kero is less dense than HTP. The reason is the HTP/Kero volume ratio, which is about four to one. The smaller kero tank is top to keep the centre of gravity as far forward as possible. See the Black Arrow.

http://www.spaceuk.org/ba/siddeley.htm


Thanks, that makes more sense. Sorry if I confused anyone.


So thats Shuttle and SLS that got it wrong  ;)


Not sure what I was thinking...
« Last Edit: 12/05/2015 01:05 PM by ethan829 »

Online Saabstory88

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So given that Hydrolox boost stages seem to cluster towards top mounted LOX, and Hydrolox upper stages seem to cluster towards bottom mounted LOX tanks, does that still make it an open question as the configuration the PM? A bottom mounted LOX tank would make sense for use of the tanks for a future upper stage. Or is this really a bespoke solution?


Offline edkyle99

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Offline yg1968

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Another test in next few days.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/01/21/blue-origin-flying/

It was posted on here first. See the post below:

Third flight coming soon? Tomorrow through Friday, it looks like.
 
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FDC 6/4629 ZAB NM..AIRSPACE VAN HORN, TX..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS DUE TO SPACE FLIGHT OPERATIONS WITHIN AN AREA DEFINED AS 17NM RADIUS OF 3127N10446W OR THE SALT FLAT /SFL/ VORTAC 125 DEGREE RADIAL AT 24NM, SFC TO UNL. PURSUANT TO 14CFR SECTION 91.143 TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. AUDREY POWERS, TELEPHONE 432-207-2132, IS IN CHARGE OF OPERATION. ALBUQUERQUE ARTCC /ZAB/, TELEPHONE 505-856-4500, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. DLY 1300-2100 1601201300-1601222100

« Last Edit: 01/22/2016 04:03 AM by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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False alarm, it seems. See the post below.

Third flight coming soon? Tomorrow through Friday, it looks like.
 
Quote
FDC 6/4629 ZAB NM..AIRSPACE VAN HORN, TX..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS DUE TO SPACE FLIGHT OPERATIONS WITHIN AN AREA DEFINED AS 17NM RADIUS OF 3127N10446W OR THE SALT FLAT /SFL/ VORTAC 125 DEGREE RADIAL AT 24NM, SFC TO UNL. PURSUANT TO 14CFR SECTION 91.143 TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. AUDREY POWERS, TELEPHONE 432-207-2132, IS IN CHARGE OF OPERATION. ALBUQUERQUE ARTCC /ZAB/, TELEPHONE 505-856-4500, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. DLY 1300-2100 1601201300-1601222100

I've been told the next test flight is scheduled in February.

Offline Darga

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False alarm, it seems. See the post below.

Third flight coming soon? Tomorrow through Friday, it looks like.
 
Quote
FDC 6/4629 ZAB NM..AIRSPACE VAN HORN, TX..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS DUE TO SPACE FLIGHT OPERATIONS WITHIN AN AREA DEFINED AS 17NM RADIUS OF 3127N10446W OR THE SALT FLAT /SFL/ VORTAC 125 DEGREE RADIAL AT 24NM, SFC TO UNL. PURSUANT TO 14CFR SECTION 91.143 TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. AUDREY POWERS, TELEPHONE 432-207-2132, IS IN CHARGE OF OPERATION. ALBUQUERQUE ARTCC /ZAB/, TELEPHONE 505-856-4500, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. DLY 1300-2100 1601201300-1601222100

I've been told the next test flight is scheduled in February.


This tweet and image claims to be about a flight today. https://twitter.com/phhbrown/status/690601166594449408

Online Chris Bergin

If they did, we might still be waiting for word for a good while yet as BO love to wait until they've edited a flashy video together.....

As soon as they do, someone start the next thread for Flight 3.


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