Author Topic: Countdown to new smallsat launchers  (Read 419743 times)

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #820 on: 11/24/2020 08:23 pm »
Don't forget OHB daughter company RFA, with their RFA one Launcher. And the most interesting ones are more secretive.
I think PLDspace is the least mature of them all in nearly all technical aspects.
The EU is funding a lot of low TRL R&D projects for reusability. It might enable full small launcher reusability.  :o :-X
Orbex is losing acces to this because of it being a British/Danish company.  Brexit  ::) :-X
But Orbex is the only one that has done full engine tests. (PLD space is developing a suborbital rocket)
Perhaps the time has come for some of the players to consider partnering up? Different partners contributing different strengths.

As for Orbex and Brexit. Are you sure this is EU funding? If it's ESA then the fact that Canada is a member should remind you that being even on the same continent is not a prerequisite  of ESA membership.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #821 on: 11/25/2020 05:14 am »
A couple of companies (Orbex, Isar Aerospace, PLD Space) have discussed reuse previously, so it wouldn't come completely out of the blue with them.
Thanks for those links.

Based on a quick look over  PLD looks like the furthest into recovery development with parachute work.  The others have made mention of recovery but it's unclear if that's months, or years, away from becoming a part of actual hardware.

There's a pretty big difference between "It's on our (eventual) road map" and "We're drop testing stag simulators under helicopters."   :(

None of them have achieved first flight and given how difficult that has proved for other competitors that's a big achievement right there.  I'll wish them all luck. 2021 and 2021 should both  be pretty exciting years.  :)
Most of these small LVs can use RL's recovery system which means they can start with ELV and add recovery system without having to design new RLV. 
I'd guess they'd add reentry control thrusters and start collecting reentry data after first few flights.

Being late to this market may actually be and advantage now. RL invested lot money in building factory to produce 12-20 ELVs are year. New comers only need to produce handful of LVs a year knowing they will be flying RLVs within couple years with factory mainly building expendable 2nd stages and fairing.
« Last Edit: 11/25/2020 05:24 am by TrevorMonty »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #822 on: 11/25/2020 06:39 am »
Most of these small LVs can use RL's recovery system which means they can start with ELV and add recovery system without having to design new RLV. 
I'd guess they'd add reentry control thrusters and start collecting reentry data after first few flights.
No, they can use the outline of a stage recovery plan that RL have developed. Parachutes that open at M2 are far from OTS kit. RL developed that capability in house. Software to predict parachute inflation at >M1 is somewhat specialized given that a 'chute is totally unlike aircraft in terms of "floppiness".
Quote from: TrevorMonty
Being late to this market may actually be and advantage now. RL invested lot money in building factory to produce 12-20 ELVs are year. New comers only need to produce handful of LVs a year knowing they will be flying RLVs within couple years with factory mainly building expendable 2nd stages and fairing.
That's a semi reusable vehicle. If they want to launch 12-20x a year that's still going to need a substantial factory because they will still be throwing away US and probably fairings each time.  They will also need to establish a track record, like all ELV's.

We'll see how many of them make it through this "filter."
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline high road

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #823 on: 11/25/2020 12:58 pm »
Beck has confirmed reuse of Electron is all go, in doing so RL have raised bar for their small LV competitors. Good news for competitors, RL has shown them are way to do reuse which most can use, larger ones may need reentry burn but they also have more mass margins to play with. Most importantly their investors shouldn't have any problems backing low risk upgrade which generates high returns.

At this stage an operational ELV would be massive achievement for RL's competitors, reuse will be ways down track for most of them.

Is the upgrade to an inconel engine bell a low risk upgrade for all of them? If they have a different material, they probably don't survive reentry the way electron does.

Time will tell if Beck has blind sided every other competitor, who was caught short but is agile enough to be playing catch up and who has been thinking on similar lines since day one and planning to move straight into it (although I would have guessed if anyone had that plan they would have made a point of emphasizing it when they came out of stealth mode).

I thnk they were blindsided by how difficult it is to get to orbit. Even without reuse, RL is years ahead of the others. Even if they reach orbit this year, they need to start producing rockets in somewhat larger numbers, which is quite a different thing from getting one to fly. I don't think their investors will appreciate them developing reusability first before launching payloads, as they are already years behind.
« Last Edit: 11/25/2020 01:16 pm by high road »

Offline GWH

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #824 on: 11/25/2020 01:59 pm »
I think investors will play a factor in how quickly we see RL's competition push towards reuse.

Now that its been demonstrated as possible at the small launcher scale the perceived risk of investment in the tech will be reduced - while the risk of a lack of investment has increased.

Both private and public investors might not only ask "why aren't you guys trying this?" but go as far as to demand it - or flock to those who are going to.


Offline PM3

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #825 on: 11/25/2020 03:11 pm »
Smallsat launcher schedule / first (successful) orbital flight since thread opening:

2018-01  Electron      US/NZ     Rocket Lab
2019-07  Hyperbola-1   China     iSpace
2019-08  Jielong-1     China     Chinarocket (state-owned)
2020-04  Qased         Iran      (military)
2020-11  Ceres-1       China     Galactic Energy

Announced or expected (NET)

2020-12  Rocket        US        Astra
2020-12  LauncherOne   US        Virgin
2020+    Simorgh       Iran      (state-owned)
2020+    Jielong-2     China     Chinarocket (state-owned)

2021-01  Firefly α     US/Ukr    Firefly
2021-Q1  SSLV          India     ISRO (state-owned)
2021-Q1  RS1           US        ABL
2021-Q4  Newline-1     China     LinkSpace -- reusable booster ♲
2021-Q4  Terran 1      US        Relativity
2021     Kuaizhou-11   China     ExPace (state-owned)
2021     Nebula-1      China     Deep Blue

2022     Spectrum      Germany   ISAR Aerospace
2022     RFA One       Germany   OHB
2022     (unnamed)     Japan     Space One
2022     Prime         UK        Orbex
2022     Eris          Australia Gilmour

2023+ not listed, as launch dates so far in the future are extremely unreliable.

Unclear - no update on launch date:

- Super Stripy derivate (X-Bow/US), announced for 2019
- Blue Whale 1 (Perigee/Korea), announced for 2020
- Hapith V (Tispace/Taiwan), announced for 2020
- OS-M1 (OneSpace/China), second attempt announced for 2020
- Vikram (Skyroot/India), announced for 2021 in early 2019

Failed: Vector, Boeing XS-1

[Update 2020-11-26: moved Spectrum to 2022; added Eris, RFA One and Prime]
[Update 2020-12-09: SSLV and Nebula-1 slip to 2021, Canon launcher to 2022]
[Update 2020-12-09: added "Unclear" section; moved OS-M1 and BlueWhale there]
« Last Edit: 12/10/2020 02:40 pm by PM3 »
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Offline ringsider

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #826 on: 11/25/2020 09:02 pm »
2021     Spectrum      Germany  ISAR Aerospace


ISAR Aerospace is now saying 2022, and you would expect them to be late on that given they have not even shown an engine running as yet and have only raised $15m or so:

In addition to ongoing fundraising efforts, Isar plans to complete a fully integrated engine test in mid-2021, and it will work toward qualifying the engine for flight by the end of 2021, Metzler said. The company is targeting 2022 for its first launch.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/09/a-german-rocket-startup-seeks-to-disrupt-the-european-launch-industry/

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #827 on: 11/26/2020 07:15 am »
Failed: Vector, Boeing XS-1

Vector has been brought back from the dead!

https://www.vector-launch.com/
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Offline PM3

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #828 on: 12/18/2020 12:40 pm »
Smallsat launcher schedule / first (successful) orbital flight since thread opening:

2018-01  Electron      US/NZ     Rocket Lab
2019-07  Hyperbola-1   China     iSpace
2019-08  Jielong-1     China     Chinarocket (state-owned)
2020-04  Qased         Iran      (military)
2020-11  Ceres-1       China     Galactic Energy

Announced or expected (NET)

2020+    Simorgh       Iran      (state-owned)
2020+    Jielong-2     China     Chinarocket (state-owned)

2021-01  LauncherOne   US        Virgin Orbit
2021-01  Firefly α     US/Ukr    Firefly
2021-Q1  Rocket        US        Astra
2021-Q1  RS1           US        ABL
2021-Q2  SSLV          India     ISRO (state-owned)
2021-Q4  Newline-1     China     LinkSpace -- reusable booster ♲
2021-Q4  Terran 1      US        Relativity
2021     Kuaizhou-11   China     ExPace (state-owned)
2021     Nebula-1      China     Deep Blue

2022     Spectrum      Germany   ISAR Aerospace
2022     RFA One       Germany   OHB
2022     (unnamed)     Japan     Space One
2022     Prime         UK        Orbex
2022     Eris          Australia Gilmour

2023+ not listed, as launch dates so far in the future are extremely unreliable.

Unclear - no update on launch date:

- Super Stripy derivate (X-Bow/US), announced for 2019
- Blue Whale 1 (Perigee/Korea), announced for 2020
- Hapith V (Tispace/Taiwan), announced for 2020
- OS-M1 (OneSpace/China), second attempt announced for 2020
- Vikram (Skyroot/India), announced for 2021 in early 2019

Failed: Boeing XS-1, Zhuque-1 (Landspace/China)
« Last Edit: 12/18/2020 12:45 pm by PM3 »
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Online Solarsail

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #829 on: 12/18/2020 04:25 pm »
I can't find any previous mentions of it here, but this sounds like an other company working on a new rocket?
https://www.spaceryde.com/

They want to launch from a stratospheric balloon, and have prototyped out the balloon and carrier for the rocket, that I can see.

Offline trimeta

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #830 on: 12/20/2020 01:10 am »
I can't find any previous mentions of it here, but this sounds like an other company working on a new rocket?
https://www.spaceryde.com/

They want to launch from a stratospheric balloon, and have prototyped out the balloon and carrier for the rocket, that I can see.

I skimmed their website when I noticed their inclusion on Erik Kulu's NewSpace Index (it's a nice collection of the pertinent competitors, even if the timelines and ordering seems based more on which companies are willing to claim earlier dates than when companies are actually likely to launch). They talk about using "smart software algorithms" to "iterate fast" and "be light," but they want to use "commercially available hardware" instead of being a "rocket factory." So where are they going to get rocket components which are completely standardized but can be easily tweaked in software? The whole "use software to iterate fast" approach makes sense for someone like Relativity Space, where their hardware is all defined in software, but if you're getting hardware from third parties, how do you change it with software?

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #831 on: 12/20/2020 05:34 am »
I can't find any previous mentions of it here, but this sounds like an other company working on a new rocket?
https://www.spaceryde.com/

They want to launch from a stratospheric balloon, and have prototyped out the balloon and carrier for the rocket, that I can see.
Does this make the rocket single stage? If it doesn't then you have yet another TSTO ELV and a balloon.

The challenge with the "Rockoon" approach (it's actually been done a few time but I can't recall if they were orbital or sub orbital) is the rocket is like the ballast on a bathysphere. Once it's dropped the vehicle shoots to the surface, in this the top of the atmosphere, and usually bursts.

So you either need to make very cheap balloons or find some way to arrest that rise and vent a lot of the gas quickly.

My personal favorite idea is to fill it with a helium/hydrogen mix then pull out the hydrogen using a vortex tube separator and burn it off.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline edzieba

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #832 on: 12/21/2020 10:25 am »
So you either need to make very cheap balloons
Every weather balloon released has been disposable, they're mass-produced cheap commodity items. $100/kg lifted is a reasonable ballpark estimate if you were to cluster CotS balloons, cost/kg lifted would reduce as diameter increases.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #833 on: 12/21/2020 04:00 pm »
So you either need to make very cheap balloons
Every weather balloon released has been disposable, they're mass-produced cheap commodity items. $100/kg lifted is a reasonable ballpark estimate if you were to cluster CotS balloons, cost/kg lifted would reduce as diameter increases.
That's Kg of complete rocket, not just the payload.

This gives you altitude rather than velocity assist, so  you can hang a much bigger nozzle on the back end. For further novelty value make it more like a Pegasus, with a wing.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #834 on: 01/04/2021 05:04 am »
Here is an article on the topic of smallsat launchers:

Ten companies bid for NASA small launch vehicle contract

https://spacenews.com/ten-companies-bid-for-nasa-small-launch-vehicle-contract/

Offline PM3

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #835 on: 01/04/2021 11:39 am »
Here is an article on the topic of smallsat launchers:

Ten companies bid for NASA small launch vehicle contract

https://spacenews.com/ten-companies-bid-for-nasa-small-launch-vehicle-contract/

Some new names here:

- Gloyer-Taylor Laboratories (https://www.gtlcompany.com/)
- Phantom Space Corporation (https://www.phantomspace.com/about)
- Phoenix Launch Systems (http://www.phoenixlaunchsystems.com/)

From the company websites:

Quote
Phantom Space Corporation was founded to revolutionize the way we transport satellites and space assets into space, through space, and back to Earth.  Our compliment of launch, propulsion and satellite solutions lowers the entry barriers to space access and enables a widening demographic access to space and space technology.

Phantom Space is a late stage start-up and has been quietly working on satellite, propulsion and launch vehicle systems since its founding in 2019.  We bring decades of experience in launch, propulsion, and satellite systems from SpaceX, Commercial startups, DoD space, Vector Launch and NASA. 

Quote
Phoenix Launch Systems, Inc. is a nanosatellite systems and service company on a mission to operate the first dedicated cubesat-class reusable launch system that allows for regular, scheduled orbital access at an unprecedented rate and cost. We are developing technologies to enable a complete end-to-end solution for reliable commercial access to space. We provide launch services with our Phoenix vehicle as well as cubesat systems sales and mission integration services.

Phoenix Launch Systems was incorporated in early 2019 by a group of both new and experienced aerospace engineers. Phoenix Launch Systems’ nanolauncher heritage traces back to the 1990s, and its mission hence has expanded from technology development to the creation of a dedicated nanosatellite launch service and turnkey space utilization solutions. Development work has been ongoing since 2016 – prior to our incorporation – for our nanosatellite hardware line and launch vehicle technology.
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Offline Kryten

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #836 on: 01/04/2021 11:44 am »
 Pheonix appears to be something of a revival of the defunct Aphelion Orbitals, the CEO is the Aphelion COO/Co-Founder.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #837 on: 01/04/2021 01:05 pm »
From article.

"Phantom, a startup led by former Vector chief executive Jim Cantrell, suffered three significant weaknesses regarding payload accommodations and environment as well as concerns the company would not be able to raise the funding needed to develop its vehicle. "

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk


Offline PM3

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #838 on: 01/09/2021 03:36 pm »
Update 01-09: Simorgh and Jielong-2 slip from 2020, Firefly α from 2021-01, RS1 from 2021-Q1, Terran 1 and Newline-1 from 2021
Update 01-18: LauncherOne made it; added SS-520


Smallsat launcher schedule / first (successful) orbital flight since thread opening:

2018-01  Electron      US/NZ     Rocket Lab
2018-03  SS-520        Japan     Nissan
2019-07  Hyperbola-1   China     iSpace
2019-08  Jielong-1     China     Chinarocket (state-owned)
2020-04  Qased         Iran      (military)
2020-11  Ceres-1       China     Galactic Energy
2021-01  LauncherOne   US        Virgin Orbit

Announced or expected (NET)

2021-Q1  Firefly α     US/Ukr    Firefly
2021-Q1  Rocket        US        Astra
2021-Q2  RS1           US        ABL
2021-Q2  SSLV          India     ISRO (state-owned)
2021     Simorgh       Iran      (state-owned)
2021     Jielong-2     China     Chinarocket (state-owned)
2021     Kuaizhou-11   China     ExPace (state-owned)
2021     Nebula-1      China     Deep Blue

2022     Terran 1      US        Relativity
2022     (unnamed)     Japan     Space One
2022     Prime         UK        Orbex
2022     Spectrum      Germany   ISAR Aerospace
2022     RFA One       Germany   OHB
2022     Eris          Australia Gilmour

2023+ not listed, as launch dates so far in the future are extremely unreliable.

Unclear - no update on launch date:

- Super Stripy derivate (X-Bow/US), announced for 2019
- Blue Whale 1 (Perigee/Korea), announced for 2020
- Hapith V (Tispace/Taiwan), announced for 2020
- OS-M1 (OneSpace/China), second attempt announced for 2020
- Newline-1 (Linkspace/China), announced for 2021 in early 2019
- Vikram (Skyroot/India), announced for 2021 in early 2019

Failed: Boeing XS-1, Zhuque-1 (Landspace/China)
« Last Edit: 01/17/2021 10:34 pm by PM3 »
"Never, never be afraid of the truth." -- Jim Bridenstine

Offline PM3

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Re: Countdown to new smallsat launchers
« Reply #839 on: 01/10/2021 03:08 pm »
So far only one 100 % privately funded and U.S.-made smallsat launcher has reached orbit: Falcon 1, in September 2008.

The second one will be one of these: Virgin LauncherOne, Astra Rocket and ABL RS1. Next shot on Wednesday for LauncherOne!
"Never, never be afraid of the truth." -- Jim Bridenstine

 

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