Author Topic: Moonspike (Read 23130 times)

Beittil · « **on:** 08/09/2015 08:57 pm »

Anybody have some info/leads on this?

http://www.moonspike.com/

Was brought into attention via Twitter by Copenhagen Suborbitals co-founder (and since retired from that program) Kristian von Bengston. ~~He is now also member if the Mars One team.~~

Edit: Nm that Mars One thingy, hes not on their team page anymore and neither does his Twitter profile still mention it since he apparently left back in May.

Beittil · « **Reply #1 on:** 08/31/2015 09:42 am »

Website got a slight upgrade, though now it is basically the same countdown but this time with a fancy background image.

Also a mentioning on /.

http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/08/29/1725243/kristian-von-bengstons-new-goal-the-moon

Prober · « **Reply #2 on:** 08/31/2015 04:00 pm »

Quote from: Beittil on 08/31/2015 09:42 am

Website got a slight upgrade, though now it is basically the same countdown but this time with a fancy background image.

Also a mentioning on /.

http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/08/29/1725243/kristian-von-bengstons-new-goal-the-moon

http://science.slashdot.org/submission/4859943/launching-space-program-moonspike-october-1-2015?sdsrc=rel

"Im the co-founder of Copenhagen Suborbitals, a DIY manned space program, which I left in 2014. This year, we (a great crew) have been preparing for the next adventure with a mission plan going public Oct 1. Go sign up and join the project www.moonspike.com -
Ad Astra
Kristian von Bengtson"

NovaSilisko · « **Reply #3 on:** 08/31/2015 08:18 pm »

Crowdfunded lunar flyby/impact probe?

Prober · « **Reply #4 on:** 09/01/2015 04:31 pm »

Quote from: NovaSilisko on 08/31/2015 08:18 pm

Crowdfunded lunar flyby/impact probe?

I wonder; a few of these groups have popped up.

Peter Madsen Former with CS has a another (same goals as CS?)
http://www.raketmadsen.dk/

E2 Aerospace Building a shuttle model or lessons learned shuttle?
http://e2aerospace.weebly.com/

savuporo · « **Reply #5 on:** 09/22/2015 10:08 pm »

Via reddit
http://imgur.com/a/yXnap

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3lyikc/elon_musk_is_meeting_privately_with_kristian/

Beittil · « **Reply #6 on:** 09/28/2015 08:02 am »

Few days old, but I remembered this tweet zipping by from Keith Cowling @nasawatch

Quote

NASA Watch ‏@NASAWatch Sep 25

On 1 Oct @moonspikedotcom will announce Kickstarter to send a rocket out of Earth orbit http://www.moonspike.com

Not sure of course if there is actually going to be a Kickstarter (or something on a similar platform), but no matter what they would ask for... in my eyes it would just be a failed project waiting to happen. Only very few projects in (new) space have succesfully seen a Kickstarter (or similar) campaign succeed. And that has only been by organisations with (tens of) thousands of followers/enthusiasts behind them already. (Planetary Resources' Arkyd-100, Planetary Society's Lightsail type of stuff, etc).

So yeah, I really do hope these guys will have something better to show this thursday than a money begging campaign.

Beittil · « **Reply #7 on:** 10/01/2015 08:49 am »

Little over two hours to go until their launch event (13:00 CET, 7am EDT).

Meanwhile on Twitter:

Quote

Kristian vonBengtson ‏@KvonBengtson 52m52 minutes ago

We are excited to be launching @moonspikedotcom in a few hours. Dont miss it #moonspike #space #launch #moon

orkeren · « **Reply #8 on:** 10/01/2015 10:50 am »

It is a kickstarter...https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moonspike/moonspike-the-worlds-first-crowdfunded-moon-rocket

Beittil · « **Reply #9 on:** 10/01/2015 10:55 am »

Ugh, I knew it... what a complete waste of time :S

How utterly, utterly dissapointing this is. This guy keeps fencing with his CopSub past, but them never having launched anything even over 10km... good credibility dude.

cdleonard · « **Reply #10 on:** 10/01/2015 11:01 am »

As far as I can tell the objective is to send 1 gram of payload crashing into the moon.

Also, they're developing their own launcher. 600K GBP for 147 kg in orbit results in something like $6163/kg including development. This is quite ambitious.

Beittil · « **Reply #11 on:** 10/01/2015 11:04 am »

Well, they do fancy Twitter hashtags... so here I have my own personal hashtag for them: #unfollow

Lets argue for the sake of sillyness that they raise all this money to built a rocket. How are they going to react when it eventually nosedives into the ocean? Start a new kickstarter to try again? Geez.

savuporo · « **Reply #12 on:** 10/01/2015 03:06 pm »

Quote from: cdleonard on 10/01/2015 11:01 am

As far as I can tell the objective is to send 1 gram of payload crashing into the moon.

Also, they're developing their own launcher. 600K GBP for 147 kg in orbit results in something like $6163/kg including development. This is quite ambitious.

As is every publicly flaunted PR stunt of a 'private space project' these days. If they were to put together a sounding rocket, i'd back them.
Russell Blink should have hired this guy as a PR manager for Exos

GWH · « **Reply #13 on:** 10/01/2015 03:31 pm »

From their Kickstarter:
Step 1: Gain enough velocity to reach earth orbit
Step 2: Very precisely add more velocity to transfer from orbit to the Moon.

Or more descriptively:
Step 1 go through an incredibly difficult and expensive process of designing a multi-stage rocket from scratch in order to put a payload & departure in orbit.
Step 2 go through an incredibly difficult and expensive process of designing a departure stage from scratch in order to put a payload on the moon.

Step 1 could be accomplished by setting up a ride share with countless other payloads, or even by purchasing a standalone flight on any of the small sat launchers currently in the market or development. You know, the same ones their launcher would need to be a competitive alternative to in order to be anything less than a one off.
Step 2 by itself might actually have some hope of getting somewhere.

savuporo · « **Reply #14 on:** 10/01/2015 03:35 pm »

Quote from: GWH on 10/01/2015 03:31 pm

Step 1 could be accomplished by setting up a ride share with countless other payloads, or even by purchasing a standalone flight on any of the small sat launchers currently in the market or development. You know, the same ones their launcher would need to be a competitive alternative to in order to be anything less than a one off.

1M is not nearly enough to book a rideshare of the required size

There is a longer Q/A article here
http://www.alphr.com/space/1001651/moonspike-behind-the-scenes-of-the-company-using-kickstarter-to-get-to-the-moon

Quote

Moonspike is seeking a million dollars to fund their lunar expedition, but Lamour acknowledges this won't be anywhere near enough to actually get their spike to the surface of the moon. "Frankly a million bucks isn't enough – we're going to need some tens of millions of dollars," he said. "I can't tell you exactly how much – it depends how much we get right and how much we get wrong along the way. I think this project is just too risky, at this stage, to take to a more institutional investor. Kickstarter, for me, I think they're quite risk-tolerant investors – but what they're not tolerant of is people abusing their trust. We're offering to take this forward in a very realistic and pragmatic way, and not waste money on silly things."

Quote

To many of you, that's going to ring alarm bells. No-one likes being called "risk-tolerant" with their money. When asked what happens if the Kickstarter delivers but the search for further funding falls flat, Lamour is somewhat elusive. "We've been having discussions with Kickstarter along the way," he said. "They've guided us that your goal should be to achieve the project you set out to achieve. That doesn't mean you want to get to the moon, it might just be a phase along the way. It has to be a significant step along the way – like we're going to create the first rocket motor and demo that it's working."

GWH · « **Reply #15 on:** 10/01/2015 03:53 pm »

Never said it was, 1 M certainly isn't enough to develop an orbital rocket. But its a lot closer to being feasible than the whole ground up moon shot. Look at planetary societies light sail for an example of raising a portion of the funds required to accomplish a manageable achievement in space.
Moonspikes scope is way, way too big to be manageable through crowdsource assistance IMO.

savuporo · « **Reply #16 on:** 10/01/2015 03:59 pm »

So look at the quotes above. First, they acknowledge that the 1M they are seeking is not nearly enough, not by a factor of 10 to accomplish the project, meanwhile they are offering certain rewards to Kickstarter backers on a certain due date.
Nowhere on Kickstarter page do they explain that this is only 'seed' money to build themselves an aerospace team.

Prober · « **Reply #17 on:** 10/01/2015 04:11 pm »

Quote from: orkeren on 10/01/2015 10:50 am

It is a kickstarter...

too bad; another kickstarter

maybe there's some good ideas somewhere?

savuporo · « **Reply #18 on:** 10/01/2015 04:16 pm »

Quote from: Prober on 10/01/2015 04:11 pm

Quote from: orkeren on 10/01/2015 10:50 am
It is a kickstarter...

too bad; another kickstarter

maybe there's some good ideas somewhere?

Nothing wrong with Kickstarters. I'd back each and every university Cubesat and sounding rocket project that comes there, and i have. As long as claims and budgets are remotely realistic.

Prober · « **Reply #19 on:** 10/01/2015 04:19 pm »

Quote from: Prober on 08/31/2015 04:00 pm

Quote from: Beittil on 08/31/2015 09:42 am
Website got a slight upgrade, though now it is basically the same countdown but this time with a fancy background image.

Also a mentioning on /.

http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/08/29/1725243/kristian-von-bengstons-new-goal-the-moon

http://science.slashdot.org/submission/4859943/launching-space-program-moonspike-october-1-2015?sdsrc=rel

"Im the co-founder of Copenhagen Suborbitals, a DIY manned space program, which I left in 2014. This year, we (a great crew) have been preparing for the next adventure with a mission plan going public Oct 1. Go sign up and join the project www.moonspike.com -
Ad Astra
Kristian von Bengtson"

Just received a email from Copenhagen Suborbitals. Some decent "real" info in the email so i'll just repost it.

Copenhagen Suborbitals co-founder Kristian von Bengtson announces Moonspike

We're thrilled about today's announcement from Moonspike, a new crowdfunded, professional, space programme, founded by Kristian von Bengtson and Chris Larmour.

Kristian was one of the founders of Copenhagen Suborbitals in 2008, but left us in March 2014. He's still a close friend of the house, and lends his advice to us now and then.

The plan is to fly an unmanned rocket to the moon, where a small penetrator will land and leave a "memory vault" of customer-supplied data in the lunar surface. Initially, 7 people will be employed by the programme in Copenhagen, lead by Kristian as Chief technology officer.

4 of our members have joined the Moonspike organisation: René Olsen, Steen Andersen, Carsten Brandt and Flemming Nyboe. All will continue their work in Copenhagen Suborbitals as well.

We are very excited and happy about Moonspike, which will be one spectacular adventure. No doubt, we'll see mutual support between Moonspike and Copenhagen Suborbitals, since so close bonds exist beween us. It's also fantastic news for non-governmental space flight globally, and not least for Denmark that now houses a space programme more.

Go, Moonspike, Go!

Everybody at Copenhagen Suborbitals

GWH · « **Reply #20 on:** 10/01/2015 04:25 pm »

Quote from: savuporo on 10/01/2015 03:59 pm

So look at the quotes above. First, they acknowledge that the 1M they are seeking is not nearly enough, not by a factor of 10 to accomplish the project, meanwhile they are offering certain rewards to Kickstarter backers on a certain due date.
Nowhere on Kickstarter page do they explain that this is only 'seed' money to build themselves an aerospace team.

I feel like you edited more to your comment as I was posting - the article you posted that I now read (ok skimmed) does go over my criticism of the project.
OK so I see what they are going for, and obviously am not the only person that thinks the whole ground up approach is too much.
So yeah personally I feel that if this project limited it's scope to only LEO to moon and looked to secure ride sharing in later rounds of fundraising I would be inclined to support it. As the project sits right now the project seems like such a vast undertaking of all or nothing that personally I can't get behind what they are going for.

They would need $4.95M to fly with Spaceflight industries: http://www.spaceflightindustries.com/schedule-pricing/

savuporo · « **Reply #21 on:** 10/01/2015 04:28 pm »

So Bengtsons hobbies got too expensive, he worked out how to spin it into a commercial venture and take his core team with him. Ask public for seed funds while being a little bit disingenuous

savuporo · « **Reply #22 on:** 10/01/2015 07:45 pm »

Nevertheless, this is an interesting read

http://moonspike.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/MS_feasibilityStudy_Oct01_2015.pdf

Their main stages are LOX/Alcohol, with what they call 'pistonless turbopumps' but i can only assume they refer to Flometrics-style (http://www.rocketfuelpump.com/ ) high-pressure helium pumped system, as they have corresponding helium tanks in the design

Prober · « **Reply #23 on:** 10/03/2015 09:56 pm »

Quote from: savuporo on 10/01/2015 04:28 pm

So Bengtsons hobbies got too expensive, he worked out how to spin it into a commercial venture and take his core team with him. Ask public for seed funds while being a little bit disingenuous

Have had several conversations with him when he was doing Wired articles for CS (very enjoyable). Not too sure about obtaining $900,000 on his kickstarter $:-\$

savuporo · « **Reply #24 on:** 10/03/2015 10:26 pm »

Not tracking towards the goal at the moment.
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/moonspike/moonspike-the-worlds-first-crowdfunded-moon-rocket/

Needs a early trajectory correction maneuver. Like a celebrity endorsement .. hmm

savuporo · « **Reply #25 on:** 10/04/2015 06:28 pm »

So anyone with pointy questions will have the opportunity to ask them today,

"Moonspike founders Kristian and Chris will be doing a Reddit AMA Sunday today at 4PM EDT (NYC time) / 10PM CET."

EDIT: Q/A here : https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3nhf16/we_are_kristian_von_bengtson_chris_larmour_and_we/

Summary : we are looking for a million dollars to hire ourselves for about a year to try and figure out a rocket that could be pointed towards the moon. Also, we'll be looking for about 10x more money if that works. No revenue model, we just like to tool around with rockets

Prober · « **Reply #26 on:** 10/05/2015 01:04 pm »

Quote from: savuporo on 10/04/2015 06:28 pm

So anyone with pointy questions will have the opportunity to ask them today,

"Moonspike founders Kristian and Chris will be doing a Reddit AMA Sunday today at 4PM EDT (NYC time) / 10PM CET."

EDIT: Q/A here : https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3nhf16/we_are_kristian_von_bengtson_chris_larmour_and_we/

Summary : we are looking for a million dollars to hire ourselves for about a year to try and figure out a rocket that could be pointed towards the moon. Also, we'll be looking for about 10x more money if that works. No revenue model, we just like to tool around with rockets

Did anyone follow this event to provide some sort of update?

Would like to get opinions on the pdf released. Is the launcher/lander design of sound design, IYHO?

Jarnis · « **Reply #27 on:** 10/05/2015 01:56 pm »

IMHO they are Kickstarting for the wrong thing.

You *might* get 1M$ through KS for building already-designed-and-verified-to-work launcher (hah, as if you could build one for that sum) that does what they hope to do.

But that would require finding funding the R&D and the test campaign to get to the point where they have a working launcher design - and realistically they are at least missing one zero in the sum, possibly missing two zeroes.

Asking 1M$ for early R&D work on a project that is ambitious, to say the least, with zero chance that they'll ever launch anything for that money is, in my opinion, abuse of Kickstarter.

Looks like potential backers agree - this will never get to the goal. No way.

Edit: Just to clarify a bit:

- I think this is a cool project. Please make it happen. Sorry, I won't back it based on the current project plan.
- I think the Kickstarter project page is potentially "selling too big dreams" to backers, so I'm calling "Kickstarter abuse".

Using a KS project to fund further fundraising while having no actual plan to "ship" what you are "selling" if people come up with 1M$ without several "hopefully we get there" steps along the way is the bit I disagree about. KS projects should work like this: People give you money to do X, you do X (barring completely unforeseen disasters). Note that this does not say "you do X if all the stars align and somehow tons more money is found along the way from other funding sources". Burying that bit into "risks" section far down the page doesn't really work here.

Gary NASA · « **Reply #28 on:** 10/05/2015 03:03 pm »

I always worry when these start ups throw out a kickstarter and do a reddit AMA. Golden Spike did the right thing by going through a big specific site like this and got the support from the industry big hitters. The other route always appears to be a social media grab that doesn't feel like it has enough substance for something serious within the industry.

Wish them well, but they need a better jump off point for this to get the funding.

Beittil · « **Reply #29 on:** 10/13/2015 12:03 pm »

As suspected this is pretty much going nowhere at all. In a few days the halfway mark for the campaign will hit and they have barely gotten above the 10% mark of their goal.

I guess Kristian will have to go about finding an actual job, because the internet won't pony up a salary for this rocket hobby

Beittil · « **Reply #30 on:** 11/02/2015 11:20 am »

Well, didn't see that coming

Quote

Kickstarter Update

We are naturally very disappointed that the Moonspike Kickstarter campaign did not reach its funding goal.

Rik ISS-fan · « **Reply #31 on:** 06/23/2017 04:49 pm »

So I came accros this Parabolic Arc article today.

CEO = Chris Larmour ; CTO = Kristian von Bengtson. Has been developing since 20.
I googled these names and: found this motherboard.vice article.
This leads me to think Moonspice continues as Orbex
They now develop a small launcher with 100-220kg to 200-1250km SSO capability.

I'm sorry if I spoiled something with this post.

Edit: I think this might be related. DLR / IAE L75
More on the L75 here brazilianspace.blogspot.nl

whitelancer64 · « **Reply #32 on:** 06/23/2017 05:41 pm »

Quote from: Rik ISS-fan on 06/23/2017 04:49 pm

So I came accros this Parabolic Arc article today.

CEO = Chris Larmour ; CTO = Kristian von Bengtson. Has been developing since 20.
I googled these names and: found this motherboard.vice article.
This leads me to think Moonspice continues as Orbex
They now develop a small launcher with 100-220kg to 200-1250km SSO capability.

I'm sorry if I spoiled something with this post.

Edit: I think this might be related. DLR / IAE L75
More on the L75 here brazilianspace.blogspot.nl

Fun Fact, Kristian von Bengtson is the architect who designed the inflatable living areas for Mars One.

OrbEx appears to have risen from the ashes of Moonspike, though the goals of the company are not the same, they're working on a small-sat launcher of the same class as RocketLab's Electron.

ringsider · « **Reply #33 on:** 06/24/2017 08:12 am »

Looks like they have some hardware (from the PR):-

Hard to get any scale on that, which I assume is a copper engine, except for the wires in the background.

If you scale to those wires, that engine is about 40-45cm in diameter.

Interesting they kept this so quiet. I can't help feeling those images have been cropped to keep more detail secret as well.