Author Topic: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover  (Read 53212 times)

Online jbenton

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #200 on: 09/05/2018 07:55 AM »


And a similar image of Curiosity, for comparison:



Albeit with a different orientation and with the arm extended.
« Last Edit: 09/05/2018 07:58 AM by jbenton »

Offline eeergo

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #201 on: 09/05/2018 01:07 PM »
Quote from: @NDRoboticist
Big week for the Mars 2020 Sampling and Caching team. We delivered the engineering model robotic arm! The most capable arm we’ve ever built for a Mars rover.

-DaviD-

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #202 on: 09/05/2018 04:28 PM »
I got to see the pre-prototype to that sampling arm last year. There are some interesting aspects to how it and the entire sampling system works. I hope that JPL produces a good video explaining all of that. There are some parts of it that you would think are simple that are actually very complex.

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #203 on: 09/07/2018 08:33 PM »
Quote from: @NDRoboticist
Big week for the Mars 2020 Sampling and Caching team. We delivered the engineering model robotic arm! The most capable arm we’ve ever built for a Mars rover.


I should add that one of the complicated aspects has to do with sealing up the containers. They have to put the material in, seal them, then make sure that they are sealed. I'm not very familiar with sample return issues at all, but there are apparently some really tough engineering aspects to that. For instance, you don't want your sealing method to contaminate or damage the samples.

We're doing the final copy editing on our planetary midterm report and in that we have some illustrations of the proposed sample return canister. There are some really interesting and complex aspects to that as well, like working out the center of gravity for a canister that is going to be filled up with little tubes of samples. When you consider that most sampling devices on Earth usually have a human picking up the material and the canister and doing everything manually, and that even the ones that don't (undersea sampling, handling nuclear materials) don't require high degrees of precision, then you start to realize how new this stuff is for Mars sample return. It's applying engineering inspection and precision in a robotic device in ways that have not been done before.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #204 on: 09/08/2018 01:50 PM »
As promised. (I apologize for the poor quality, but I don't have the ability to grab the source files at the moment, so I'm using screen grabs of our already-compressed pdf of the report.)

This thing is about the size of a soccer ball. You can see the sample canisters nested inside. I don't know how many this one would carry. The numbers vary a bit--they have a capability to carry more, but they have to have the ability to carry less in case of a failure. For instance, maybe a canister doesn't fit, or the arm loading them in has mobility issues. Also, the ball has to be sealed up tight too. There are all kinds of planetary protection and sample protection requirements to keep the dirt in and to keep any Earth microbes out.

So all the canisters are loaded in and then this ball is sealed. It is then launched into Mars orbit and separates from the launcher. There is an orbiting spacecraft that then tracks it optically, rendezvous with it, and captures it.

Yeah, optically.

You'd think that they'd want to track that little soccer ball with a radar, or with a radio beacon inside the ball. But it turns out that when JPL did the trade studies, radar is less accurate than optical tracking. And one problem with a radio beacon is that it could fail, so you would still need an alternate tracking method. And optical tracking is pretty good because the sensor technology is now so advanced. Plus, the MAV is going to be launching it off of Mars on a precise trajectory, so you're going to know exactly where this thing is headed, and the orbital vehicle is going to be in a precise orbit too, watching for it.

[Update: just FYI, this is referred to as the Orbital Sample vehicle, or the OS.]
« Last Edit: 09/08/2018 01:59 PM by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #205 on: 09/08/2018 01:56 PM »
So here are some photos of rocket motor tests for the MAV. These were started last year (I think in October), so I presume they have advanced quite a bit by now.

In the long history of working on Mars sample return proposals/projects, NASA and JPL did relatively little advanced technology development and testing. They were mostly doing paper studies and assessments. That left some big holes in the architecture. People would ask "how are you going to launch the samples off of the Martian surface?" and the answer was "we think that technology X or Y will work..." But they didn't have any real-world testing data that could back up their assumptions. One of the big developments in the Mars sample return area is that they have now started to do the actual testing.

This is NOT hardware development. But it is a significant advance.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #206 on: 09/08/2018 01:58 PM »
This schematic shows how they expect to grab the sample canister. JPL has actually produced a neat animation showing the whole launch, rendezvous and capture sequence, but I don't know if I have it anywhere. (Even if I do, JPL has this habit of producing animations that are 400 megabytes, so I probably could not upload it.)

Just as a reminder: Mars 2020 will collect samples and put them in canisters. This schematic shows how they will be recovered.

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #207 on: 09/08/2018 02:28 PM »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #208 on: 09/08/2018 03:56 PM »
This and the midterm review are discussed here.

Jason explains the decadal survey around 10 minutes in, Louise shows up about 8 minutes later:

http://www.planetary.org/multimedia/planetary-radio/show/2018/space-policy-edition-29.html

« Last Edit: 09/08/2018 08:32 PM by Blackstar »

Offline catdlr

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #209 on: 09/09/2018 04:14 AM »
Mars sample return

European Space Agency, ESA
Published on May 2, 2018

Spacecraft in orbit and on Mars’s surface have made many exciting discoveries, transforming our understanding of the planet and unveiling clues to the formation of our Solar System, as well as helping us understand our home planet. The next step is to bring samples to Earth for detailed analysis in sophisticated laboratories where results can be verified independently and samples can be reanalysed as laboratory techniques continue to improve.

Bringing Mars to Earth is no simple undertaking—it would require at least three missions from Earth and one never-been-done-before rocket launch from Mars.

A first mission, NASA’s 2020 Mars Rover, is set to collect surface samples in pen-sized canisters as it explores the Red Planet. Up to 31 canisters will be filled and readied for a later pickup – geocaching gone interplanetary.

In the same period, ESA’s ExoMars rover, which is also set to land on Mars in 2021, will be drilling up to two meters below the surface to search for evidence of life.

A second mission with a small fetch rover would land nearby and retrieve the samples in a Martian search-and-rescue operation. This rover would bring the samples back to its lander and place them in a Mars Ascent Vehicle – a small rocket to launch the football-sized container into Mars orbit.

A third launch from Earth would provide a spacecraft sent to orbit Mars and rendezvous with the sample containers. Once the samples are safely collected and loaded into an Earth entry vehicle, the spacecraft would return to Earth, release the vehicle to land in the United States, where the samples will be retrieved and placed in quarantine for detailed analysis by a team of international scientists.

Credits: NASA/ESA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNnJBKR9lqY?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #210 on: 09/09/2018 12:51 PM »
That's pretty good. The video I saw focused specifically on the tracking, rendezvous and capture process, showing how the sensors and engineering works. I'll have to look for that.

Online jbenton

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #211 on: 09/11/2018 06:21 AM »
As promised. (I apologize for the poor quality, but I don't have the ability to grab the source files at the moment, so I'm using screen grabs of our already-compressed pdf of the report.)

... [snip]

[Update: just FYI, this is referred to as the Orbital Sample vehicle, or the OS.]

How does the arm(s) on the MAV lander and/or the fetch rover grab the Orb of Truth here? I don't see any obvious attach points, like what we see on ISS, Hubble, etc.

Thanks.  :)

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #212 on: 09/11/2018 05:09 PM »
As promised. (I apologize for the poor quality, but I don't have the ability to grab the source files at the moment, so I'm using screen grabs of our already-compressed pdf of the report.)

... [snip]

[Update: just FYI, this is referred to as the Orbital Sample vehicle, or the OS.]

How does the arm(s) on the MAV lander and/or the fetch rover grab the Orb of Truth here? I don't see any obvious attach points, like what we see on ISS, Hubble, etc.

Thanks.  :)

I think that the OS is mounted to the MAV the whole time. They pop the top open and lower in the samples, then close the top. I might have slides about that somewhere. I'll have to check.

The capture of the OS by the orbiting vehicle is also another thing that requires special design. You want it to go into the capture cone and not bounce out.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #213 on: 09/11/2018 06:47 PM »
This is from last December. I am sure they have made a lot more progress since then.

Online jbenton

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #214 on: 09/14/2018 08:36 AM »
Here's a fun idea:

Because the Mars 2020 rover leaves a trail of small sample cores for a later fetch rover to pick up, they should name the Mars 2020 rover "Hansel", and they should name the fetch rover "Gretel".  ;D

« Last Edit: 09/14/2018 11:12 PM by jbenton »

Online vjkane

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #215 on: 09/16/2018 05:06 PM »
Here's a fun idea:

Because the Mars 2020 rover leaves a trail of small sample cores for a later fetch rover to pick up, they should name the Mars 2020 rover "Hansel", and they should name the fetch rover "Gretel".  ;D
Actually the plan is to establish one or two caches of many sample tubes.

Online jbenton

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #216 on: 09/17/2018 01:51 AM »
Here's a fun idea:

Because the Mars 2020 rover leaves a trail of small sample cores for a later fetch rover to pick up, they should name the Mars 2020 rover "Hansel", and they should name the fetch rover "Gretel".
Actually the plan is to establish one or two caches of many sample tubes.

It's going to drop them into two piles? I guess that makes it easier for the fetch rover to do its job. I thought part of the point was to reduce risk for Mars 2020: if it gets stuck in a rut at least some of the samples would be off-board.
I guess this is kind of a compromise between the original idea of having Mars 2020 fill up a canister with the samples and the idea of leaving a trail of cores.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #217 on: 09/17/2018 05:23 AM »
Here's a fun idea:

Because the Mars 2020 rover leaves a trail of small sample cores for a later fetch rover to pick up, they should name the Mars 2020 rover "Hansel", and they should name the fetch rover "Gretel".
Actually the plan is to establish one or two caches of many sample tubes.

It's going to drop them into two piles? I guess that makes it easier for the fetch rover to do its job. I thought part of the point was to reduce risk for Mars 2020: if it gets stuck in a rut at least some of the samples would be off-board.
I guess this is kind of a compromise between the original idea of having Mars 2020 fill up a canister with the samples and the idea of leaving a trail of cores.

Didn't I post slides about that upstream? We got a good explanation for the sample deposit strategy back in spring. I don't remember the specifics, but they were thinking about establishing safe areas where they would drop the samples. But I suspect that this will be somewhat dynamic based upon what they encounter on the surface. For instance, if the rover gets momentarily stuck somewhere, they will probably not want to risk getting stuck again with samples onboard, so they might get unstuck, return to a safe area, and drop their samples even if that's not the original plan. Then they would proceed. The philosophy is to not build up too much risk of losing a bunch of samples.

Online vjkane

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Re: NASA - Mars 2020 Rover
« Reply #218 on: 09/17/2018 03:27 PM »
Here's a fun idea:

Because the Mars 2020 rover leaves a trail of small sample cores for a later fetch rover to pick up, they should name the Mars 2020 rover "Hansel", and they should name the fetch rover "Gretel".
Actually the plan is to establish one or two caches of many sample tubes.

It's going to drop them into two piles? I guess that makes it easier for the fetch rover to do its job. I thought part of the point was to reduce risk for Mars 2020: if it gets stuck in a rut at least some of the samples would be off-board.
I guess this is kind of a compromise between the original idea of having Mars 2020 fill up a canister with the samples and the idea of leaving a trail of cores.

Didn't I post slides about that upstream? We got a good explanation for the sample deposit strategy back in spring. I don't remember the specifics, but they were thinking about establishing safe areas where they would drop the samples. But I suspect that this will be somewhat dynamic based upon what they encounter on the surface. For instance, if the rover gets momentarily stuck somewhere, they will probably not want to risk getting stuck again with samples onboard, so they might get unstuck, return to a safe area, and drop their samples even if that's not the original plan. Then they would proceed. The philosophy is to not build up too much risk of losing a bunch of samples.
I don't have all my files with me at work, so can't post the appropriate slide.  From memory, the current thinking is that the 2020 rover will explore and sample two distinct areas near it's landing site.  After it completes its work in the first, it will travel to the second and deposit its collected sample tubes.  It will then collect the new samples in the second area and deposit them with the first set of samples.  That way, the fetch rover needs to travel to just one location to pick up the samples.

The goal for the fetch rover is to get the samples as quickly as possible.  If the 2020 rover dropped them as it went, then the fetch rover would need to retrace a substantial portion of the 2020 rover's path.  This would be especially problematic if NASA decides to use the Midway site and then go into the crater because they are several kilometers apart.

There is also talk that if the fetch mission will launch in the mid-2020s of keeping the samples on the 2020 rover and having it deliver the samples to the ascent vehicle.  In this strategy, the fetch rover would still be delivered but not depending on it eliminates the risk of failure in an untried mechanism.

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