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#2020 by rfmwguy on 21 Sep, 2015 20:04
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Plan is to rent an existing transmitter setup and go 100kW continuous/ (50us-pulsed+) and 1MW 10us pulsed in the ~950MHz L-Band range. Magnetron setup looks very similar to the attached unit c/w transformer, waveguide launcher/isolator, etc. Hope to be able to talk more soon and show some pictures of the unit itself. Aiming for some data above background.
Whoa...best of luck. Congrats on taking the plunge fellow builder!
My personal hope is that RS/EM-Drive is better at hitting the concept with a hammer to have gotten results showing a phenomena and that Eagleworks/Q-Thruster are better theorists that we really are dealing with magneohydrodynamics and COM with the quantum vacuum that with some juice @ mode we'll get some real thrust. If not, well, at least won't be "will it, won't it" forever.Craig, I've seen mention on the net of a company that makes up to 2kw, 2.45ghz amplifiers. If you don't already have the magnetron, perhaps a powerful amp coupled with a computer control system designed to keep the signal in tune might be better. Less overall power, and probably less power on the resonant frequency, but I'm not sure how much less power. Also you could nudge the power up so you don't suddenly find out that the thing wants to move sideways as well as up/down.
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#2021 by Flyby on 21 Sep, 2015 21:01
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geeez... 100kW continuous.... you're planning on melting some copper? :p
You might have some serious thermal issues with that kind of power injection...
Keep in mind that Shawyer blew several magnetrons...
what if you blow that rented magnetron? -
#2022 by SteveD on 21 Sep, 2015 21:16
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I think this might end up with a tungsten frustum.
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#2023 by rfmwguy on 21 Sep, 2015 21:20
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geeez... 100kW continuous.... you're planning on melting some copper? :p
Here's the way I look at this. If he has resonance and Q at 915 Mhz and he fires this puppy up to 100 kW, this should go a long way into proving or disproving this whole thing. Not sure how to send in 100kW with flexible cable or waveguide to where frustum movement can be detected. Look forward to the config details.
You might have some serious thermal issues with that kind of power injection...
Keep in mind that Shawyer blew several magnetrons...
what if you blow that rented magnetron? -
#2024 by CraigPichach on 21 Sep, 2015 22:06
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Yep, that is what I am working on.
So ironically for 1MW 10us, you actually can just let it air cool because test duration is so short.... but would you actually get any useful information??
For continuous it's actually an iteration with how much we can water cool (good news about the experiment is that the frustrum is far from the magnetron so we can put it in a cold water bath with constant cold water coming in at say the bottom, overfilling the hot water to a drain) and how big the frustrum can be (in turn how much power at 930MHz at a mode). With immersion cooling you have surface area ~2m2. So with say 1600W/m2 K and allowing for a 5K increase we'd actually be in good shape. Q=h * A * (T2-T1).
However it looks like this makes the unit size 70kW @ 930MHz, which is better than 5kW.. and then the 100kW will be pulsed to avoid overheat (and it looks like some think pulsing is more effective anyway).
I do want to shoot at least 70kW continuous @ ~930-950MHz at mode TE013; than a pulsed 100kW and then try the 1MW 10us. Now if we see nothing though, is it placement (easily changed with different inputs) or is it the mode (i.e. should we be TE010). Probably will have a TE010 frustrum too and then reshoot.
EDIT - Sorry, when I say continuous I mean like 30 seconds. Bad habit... This isn't continuous as in hours. In my opinion after 30 seconds you should see thrust or it isn't there.
OTHER EDIT - How will we "offset" buoyancy, answer is we won't be disregarding all "thrust" skyward and will aim for some kind of thrust value into the ground (hot air will want to rise, hot water/steam will want to rise, any value "down" will be overcoming that (wouldn't it be nice if thrust actual was higher than what was measured?). At least for the first shots.geeez... 100kW continuous.... you're planning on melting some copper? :p
You might have some serious thermal issues with that kind of power injection...
Keep in mind that Shawyer blew several magnetrons...
what if you blow that rented magnetron? -
#2025 by rfmwguy on 22 Sep, 2015 00:02
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Fresh video from another builder:
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#2026 by SeeShells on 22 Sep, 2015 01:26
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Just got in, sorry been out all day.
It was mode TE012 and yes it looks like TE01 and maybe another.
Shell
SE and BE looks like TE01, the gif's show the Hz component.Both BE and SE
TE012?
Don't know. That one really looks to me to be numeric in nature. If it is then higher resolution would just smooth it out.
That is, if you are addressing the jagged edges around the top of the gif. If you are asking a question about the mode, then pardon me. Someone else will need to answer that.
@Shell: If my memory is correct the cavity was designed for TE013
That's what the view from the side at the cone looks like also.
But i understand the confusing, its the last pic in this series that make me think there is another mode in the game too. -
#2027 by Bob Woods on 22 Sep, 2015 03:44
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Spent some time today putting LDS display and DAQ module into an ancient PC. Its fast enough to datalog and also provide power to sensors. Hey, check out the cool floppy drive!
My drive has been floppy for a while.
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#2028 by Stormbringer on 22 Sep, 2015 06:08
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geeez... 100kW continuous.... you're planning on melting some copper? :p
yet another use for microwaves:
You might have some serious thermal issues with that kind of power injection...
Keep in mind that Shawyer blew several magnetrons...
what if you blow that rented magnetron?
http://www.microwavegoldkiln.com/
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#2029 by graybeardsyseng on 22 Sep, 2015 11:50
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"Photons that travel in free space slower than the speed of light"
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1411.3987.pdf
There are differences between plane waves and Bessel beams for the propagation constant...
Finally in free space too, really interesting i think.
Very interesting paper. I have been wading through the math (its been many decades LOL) but it looks like it may be of significance to the folks here. I hope someone with better/more current math takes a look at it.
Herman
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#2030 by TheTraveller on 22 Sep, 2015 13:18
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"Photons that travel in free space slower than the speed of light"
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1411.3987.pdf
There are differences between plane waves and Bessel beams for the propagation constant...
Finally in free space too, really interesting i think.
Very interesting paper. I have been wading through the math (its been many decades LOL) but it looks like it may be of significance to the folks here. I hope someone with better/more current math takes a look at it.
Herman
Nice. -
#2031 by SeeShells on 22 Sep, 2015 13:24
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Got in yesterday from going downtown, it was too hot... 90F and I drove my old sweetheart a 65 Pontiac Grand Prix, no air. Got my goodies and came home to the cool mountains, posted here once, sat down to watch some news and fell asleep.
Had every intention to get some pics of my build last night, but old age and heat had other ideas. I'll get some this morning and post them.
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#2032 by rfmwguy on 22 Sep, 2015 15:14
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Oh, how quaint...updating the old PC with windows xp service pack 3 to datalog. Pardon me while I nap before the update is completed.
One hour and counting...sheesh, how did we get by with how slow pcs were a few years ago?
One hour 20 min for sp3 install. Now it wants .net framework...zzzzzzzz
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#2033 by rfmwguy on 22 Sep, 2015 16:19
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Glad this op ed guy wasn't around when wilbur and orville were tinkering in their garage.
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#2034 by CybJaffe on 22 Sep, 2015 16:30
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If EM drives offer any degree of thrust, telecommunications and science missions will benefit considerably. If it's possible to supply a lot of thrust, they'll literally change the destiny of humanity. But first, we need to know if they work or not. The theories are certainly intriguing, and there are a fair few anecdotal hints that there is something there, but as the several hundred pages of the previous thread show, figuring out what's going on is a real bear.
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#2035 by ElizabethGreene on 22 Sep, 2015 17:26
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I'll save you the cost of buying that kit. Silicon Carbide grinding wheels are a massive microwave sink. Set it on a firebrick or it will seriously damage the oven. Put a firebrick house around a crucible sitting on top of one and it will melt Aluminum. (Haven't tried copper.)
Changing topics, how does one calculate the convective and radiative heat loss of the frustrum to the surrounding air?geeez... 100kW continuous.... you're planning on melting some copper? :p
yet another use for microwaves:
You might have some serious thermal issues with that kind of power injection...
Keep in mind that Shawyer blew several magnetrons...
what if you blow that rented magnetron?
http://www.microwavegoldkiln.com/ -
#2036 by X_RaY on 22 Sep, 2015 17:34
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Right @2,45GHz TE012 for CE-2 Rev.6. Just rechecked aero's descriptions in the share folder, and have calculated with this dimensions. I had an older design in my mind...
Just got in, sorry been out all day.
It was mode TE012 and yes it looks like TE01 and maybe another.
Shell
SE and BE looks like TE01, the gif's show the Hz component.Both BE and SE
TE012?
Don't know. That one really looks to me to be numeric in nature. If it is then higher resolution would just smooth it out.
That is, if you are addressing the jagged edges around the top of the gif. If you are asking a question about the mode, then pardon me. Someone else will need to answer that.
@Shell: If my memory is correct the cavity was designed for TE013
That's what the view from the side at the cone looks like also.
But i understand the confusing, its the last pic in this series that make me think there is another mode in the game too. -
#2037 by SeeShells on 22 Sep, 2015 20:18
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http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/shells2bells2002/library/CE%20Electromagnetic%20Reaction%20Thruster
Current build.
The other copper sheet for the CE frustum is out for water jet cutting, dropped it off yesterday. Should have it by the end of this week or first of next.
Shell -
#2038 by rfmwguy on 22 Sep, 2015 22:11
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http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/shells2bells2002/library/CE%20Electromagnetic%20Reaction%20Thruster
I am jealous ;^)
Current build.
The other copper sheet for the CE frustum is out for water jet cutting, dropped it off yesterday. Should have it by the end of this week or first of next.
Shell -
#2039 by aero on 22 Sep, 2015 23:04
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http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/shells2bells2002/library/CE%20Electromagnetic%20Reaction%20Thruster
I am jealous ;^)
Current build.
The other copper sheet for the CE frustum is out for water jet cutting, dropped it off yesterday. Should have it by the end of this week or first of next.
Shell
Join the crowd. There are a bunch of us.
Had every intention to get some pics of my build last night, but old age and heat had other ideas. I'll get some this morning and post them.