Quote from: DatUser14 on 12/01/2015 01:47 pmExcuse me if I misunderstand this, but hasn't some journalist or other said that Spacex hopes the next landing to be on land before a great deal of landing attempts? What makes this different?SFAIK the constraint preventing landing on land has not been the rocket crashing into the pad and blowing up; that would not damage any government or public property. The reason the offshore landings were required was to demonstrate that the booster could return from the actual launch trajectory to the landing pad accurately, remain under control, and not go off course and damage government or private property or endanger human lives. AIUI the return trajectory used with the barge was the same as the one that will be used for recovery on land, the return burn was just delayed a few seconds to move the landing point offshore. SpaceX has already demonstrated the capability to land a booster stage intact on the ground quite a few times, although obviously several design problems have been identified during the barge landing attempts and the design has evolved.
Excuse me if I misunderstand this, but hasn't some journalist or other said that Spacex hopes the next landing to be on land before a great deal of landing attempts? What makes this different?
might be good to get some pics of the LC-1 site and while we are in the area Blue's site LC-36 might be fun to watch
Quote from: James Dean @flatoday_jdeanSpaceX hopes to land next F9 booster on land at "Landing Complex-1" at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
SpaceX hopes to land next F9 booster on land at "Landing Complex-1" at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
Does seem very risky to me since they have never landed successfully on the barge-Drone Ship. But maybe terra firma is actually easier. I hope it is not because of Blue. Musk's competition with Bezos could backfire. Either SpX goes for the TKO or Musk has to eat humble pie and get tarred by the MSM.
...How off from the launch trajectory is the return trajectory? Meaning, if range control is ok with the launch then wouldn't it be okay for the RTL? I assume the same ordnance is still in place if things go pear shaped. And a booster (and second stage) loaded with fuel is probably a bigger concern than a nearly empty booster with no second stage.
...my guess is that some pretty heavy arm twisting is in process to go from a barge landing to land and doing so in a brand new launcher that has never flown. puts more popcorn on the list
I don't understand what leverage SpaceX could possibly have to twist anyone's arm.
Quote from: GalacticIntruder on 12/01/2015 07:51 pmDoes seem very risky to me since they have never landed successfully on the barge-Drone Ship. But maybe terra firma is actually easier. I hope it is not because of Blue. Musk's competition with Bezos could backfire. Either SpX goes for the TKO or Musk has to eat humble pie and get tarred by the MSM.What's the risk? That the booster crashes? It's already crash landed in the ocean and on the barge. Worst case now is it crashes on an empty expanse of concrete. Why is that any worse? As for being "tarred" by the MSM, all previous "failed" landing attempts will be forgotten about 5 minutes after the first successful SpaceX landing and Musk will be toasted as the second coming of Werner von Braun, albeit without the unfortunate political baggage.So I doubt Musk is worried. He's playing the long game, and one or two more failed landing attempts aren't going to prevent an ultimately successful landing.Which will then immediately eclipse Blue's media coup, since a potentially reusable orbital booster stage is a much bigger deal than a potentially reusable tourist ride.
...my guess is that some pretty heavy arm twisting is in process to go from a barge landing to land and doing so in a brand new launcher that has never flown.
Quote from: mme on 12/01/2015 08:34 pmI don't understand what leverage SpaceX could possibly have to twist anyone's arm.They don't have any; you need to consider the source of the comment.
I don't think the range is worried about it crashing at the landing complex. They are worried about it failing somehow earlier and hitting somewhere else. That's the risk which is all the range deals in. It's coming back fast and from far away so a little mistake in the retro burn could lead to being far off course at the impact point. A few try's getting close to a barge doesn't exactly prove they will do that everytime. And the range is responsible for making sure everyone is safe even when unexpected things happen.
Quote from: LastStarFighter on 12/01/2015 08:44 pmI don't think the range is worried about it crashing at the landing complex. They are worried about it failing somehow earlier and hitting somewhere else. That's the risk which is all the range deals in. It's coming back fast and from far away so a little mistake in the retro burn could lead to being far off course at the impact point. A few try's getting close to a barge doesn't exactly prove they will do that everytime. And the range is responsible for making sure everyone is safe even when unexpected things happen.That's what FTS is for, and Range won't allow an attempt until they're quite comfortable that they've got the right destruct criteria in place and that a destruct command will result in debris falling well away from inhabited areas.
That's what FTS is for ...
Quote from: edkyle99 on 12/01/2015 09:09 pm If the impact point comes in long during the early portion of reentry, won't blowing up the stage simply result in many more undesired ground impacts? - Ed KyleI doubt that's a problem, because the ballistic coefficient of fragments will be lower than that of the intact stage, causing fragments to fall short of the pre-destruct IIP.Yes, there will be more impact points, but they'll all be short of the pre-destruct IIP. IMHO.
If the impact point comes in long during the early portion of reentry, won't blowing up the stage simply result in many more undesired ground impacts? - Ed Kyle
That's an argument in favor of the idea that they may do a targeting "offset" in which they target coordinates east of the landing pad during the boostback and braking burns, in order to bias the IIP east, then do a final correction with the grid fins during final descent. Only speculation, of course.