SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - ORBCOMM-2 - Dec. 21, 2015 (Return To Flight) DISCUSSION

[friendly3]

(...)but hold the wake for the competition once the economics are proven.

Obviously the wake will be very very slow.

[ugordan]

Some nice shots in this photo album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alloyjared/albums/72157662626043695

[AncientU]

https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/679123284986757120

Stephen Clark
‏@StephenClark1

SpaceX launch team confirms a good deorbit burn of the Falcon 9 2nd stage, key test before future launches.

Before it is lost in the celebration, this new tidbit indicates second stage reuse is in the wings...

[DJPledger]

https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/679123284986757120

Stephen Clark
‏@StephenClark1

SpaceX launch team confirms a good deorbit burn of the Falcon 9 2nd stage, key test before future launches.

Before it is lost in the celebration, this new tidbit indicates second stage reuse is in the wings...

SpaceX have abandoned 2nd stage reuse as far as I know.

Anyway congratulations to SpaceX for successful RTF and RTLS of the 1st stage!

[Hankelow8]

https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/679123284986757120

Stephen Clark
‏@StephenClark1

SpaceX launch team confirms a good deorbit burn of the Falcon 9 2nd stage, key test before future launches.

I think we are a long way off second stage return, Space X have already stated they are not contemplating re-use in the short to medium term.

I think a full blown re-entry is a vastly more difficult task, and at the present I think their R&D costs have all the impact on their balance sheet the need at the moment.

[J-V]

https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/679123284986757120

Stephen Clark
‏@StephenClark1

SpaceX launch team confirms a good deorbit burn of the Falcon 9 2nd stage, key test before future launches.

Before it is lost in the celebration, this new tidbit indicates second stage reuse is in the wings...

Or then they need the second burn for GTO missions. Wasn't that a problem in the past?

[Dante2121]

https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/679123284986757120

Stephen Clark
‏@StephenClark1

SpaceX launch team confirms a good deorbit burn of the Falcon 9 2nd stage, key test before future launches.

Before it is lost in the celebration, this new tidbit indicates second stage reuse is in the wings...

Or then they need the second burn for GTO missions. Wasn't that a problem in the past?

Future missions per this post in the update thread.

ORBCOMM gets RTF:

SpaceX statement

“As we prepare for return to flight, SpaceX together with its customers SES and Orbcomm have evaluated opportunities to optimize the readiness of the upcoming Falcon 9 return-to-flight mission.  All parties have mutually agreed that SpaceX will now fly the Orbcomm-2 mission on the return-to-flight Falcon 9 vehicle.

 

“The Orbcomm-2 mission does not require a relight of the second stage engine following orbital insertion. Flying the Orbcomm-2 mission first will therefore allow SpaceX to conduct an on-orbit test of the second stage relight system after the Orbcomm-2 satellites have been safely deployed. This on-orbit test, combined with the current qualification program to be completed prior to launch, will further validate the second stage relight system and allow for optimization of the upcoming SES-9 mission and following missions to  geosynchronous transfer orbit.

 

“This change does not affect the timeline for SpaceX’s return-to-flight mission which is still targeted to take place in the next 6-8 weeks. The SES-9 launch is currently targeted for late December 2015.”

[Norm38]

I know they've been making landing improvements each time, but the Falcon came down so perfectly vertical and dead center on the pad, that I can't believe they didn't land on the barge before this.
And it seems they can do barge landings now if they need the extra performance for heavier payloads.
I wonder if that'll be in the mix, or if they'll only come back to the pad?

[Ben the Space Brit]

I know they've been making landing improvements each time, but the Falcon came down so perfectly vertical and dead center on the pad, that I can't believe they didn't land on the barge before this.

All previous landing failures seem to have been specific hardware issues, which have been since rectified.

And it seems they can do barge landings now if they need the extra performance for heavier payloads.
I wonder if that'll be in the mix, or if they'll only come back to the pad?

I'm not sure if it's been confirmed but the general consensus at this point seems to be that the SES-9 launch may use the ASRD barge.

[rocx]

It's morning now in Florida, when are we getting some daylight pictures of the landed stage? Is there any timeline for what's going to happen to the stage in the next few weeks?

[vanoord]

It's morning now in Florida, when are we getting some daylight pictures of the landed stage? Is there any timeline for what's going to happen to the stage in the next few weeks?

Move to LC39A and static fire?

Presumably they'll want to get it horizontal as soon as possible, which will be an interesting exercise. Suspect this will need a couple of cranes and the hope that someone remembered to fix some attachment points to the upper half of the stage.

[JamesH]

Space X has now moved the goal posts to a new dimension, gone are the old "expensive ways " to launch.

All other companies will have to seriously re-think their future plans otherwise they will be blown away.

Not quite. What they've actually done is to spend more money on fuel, labor, etc. to get a used rocket stage back intact on the ground. That's quite an impressive technical feat, but economically it's still a drag on the bottom line that has to be covered either by the customer or SpaceX. So far it's a new expensive way to launch.

If and when the recovered boosters can be cheaply refurbished to be reliable enough to convince customers to go with used boosters, THAT'S when the old expensive ways will be gone - if there are enough light payloads to allow SpaceX to accumulate used boosters and customers to use them.

This was an impressive technical achievement, but so far it's still an R&D investment, not an economic paradigm shift. Kudos to the technical team, but hold the wake for the competition once the economics are proven.

True, but rather disingenuous. There are added costs for recovery, but it's by no means an expensive way to launch, since launch costs are still lower than the competition.

And when you move on to reusability, this is clearly the first step, but an absolutely vital one. It's (hopefully) the first step in a paradigm shift. All shifts have a first step, and they almost always require R&D expenditure.

[Senex]

I am surprised at the nay-sayers.  Why not just complain that they got the rocket dirty?!!!

Five years ago this bordered on fantasy. Now it's real.  This wasn't just some carefully contrived test flight — they did this while delivering a customer's payload.

Yes, there is more work to be done, but the boundaries of what is considered possible have been moved.  Now it is POSSIBLE to debate the economics of reuse. 



Cue video of the morning sun rising on the Falcon 9 sitting out there.  Caption reads, "A new day dawns . . ."

Congratulations to the Spacex team.

[Kaputnik]

I know they've been making landing improvements each time, but the Falcon came down so perfectly vertical and dead center on the pad, that I can't believe they didn't land on the barge before this.
And it seems they can do barge landings now if they need the extra performance for heavier payloads.
I wonder if that'll be in the mix, or if they'll only come back to the pad?

I'm pretty sure during the webcast the guy out on the landing site said that they would continue to use the barge when necessary.


A question: were any of the vehicles in the Grasshopper program ever returned to horizontal?

[gadgetmind]

Given how good a job BO did of releasing a very slick video after their NS landing, it might be that Elon has video envy and we'll see something similar in the next few days? No information, just casual musing.

[OxCartMark]

Space X has now moved the goal posts to a new dimension, gone are the old "expensive ways " to launch.

All other companies will have to seriously re-think their future plans otherwise they will be blown away.

Not quite. What they've actually done is to spend more money on fuel, labor, etc. to get a used rocket stage back intact on the ground. That's quite an impressive technical feat, but economically it's still a drag on the bottom line that has to be covered either by the customer or SpaceX. So far it's a new expensive way to launch.

  Musk has said that propellent costs something like $200k.  Even if that is increased by 50% its approximately zero percent of the launch cost.

If and when the recovered boosters can be cheaply refurbished to be reliable enough to convince customers to go with used boosters, THAT'S when the old expensive ways will be gone - if there are enough light payloads to allow SpaceX to accumulate used boosters and customers to use them.

Why do you think they'll need to be refurbished in the long term?  Yes, there may be some things discovered during the first year of landings that will require redesign to be fully reusable but that'll be worked out just as the rest of his vision has been. The goal is rapid reusibility, as in re-launching the next day and Musk has said that in his mind SpaceX could be considered to have failed if that isn't achieved.  He isn't a guy that fails to achieve his goals. Refurbishment is a space shuttle thing and that lesson has been learned and won't be repeated at Spacex.

This was an impressive technical achievement, but so far it's still an R&D investment, not an economic paradigm shift. Kudos to the technical team, but hold the wake for the competition once the economics are proven.

  Yea right!

[ugordan]

Given how good a job BO did of releasing a very slick video after their NS landing

SpaceX showed their landing LIVE, as everyone experienced it. Maybe they learned their lesson, maybe partly as a result of BOs success, but they didn't hide it. I'll take an organic, live video like this over a slick promo anytime.

[bilboleo1]

Any chance one of you wizards could put up side-by-side pics of the first stage pre-launch / post-landing? So we can all nit-pick how much different they really look? And discuss the effects of landing. I'd do it, but as you maybe can see from over there [<--- pointing to left side] I haven't quite got the hang of this posting thing yet.
cheers

[cdleonard]

Photo of booster with crane:

Most of it is covered in soot except for a wide white band in the middle, why is that? I've seen some speculation that this was due to ice covering the LOX tonk but all the fuel should have been drained by now. Maybe a layer of ice prevented soot deposition earlier?

[bunker9603]

Night launches are great, but I am really looking forward to watching a daytime landing (especially after seeing the photo abaove)