Author Topic: Lockheed/MAF bank on COTS outcome (Read 7389 times)

Chris Bergin · « **on:** 08/13/2006 01:45 am »

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4700

Includes the first public notes on the CLV showstopper, which is on multiple pages on L2 at present (with articles to follow as we collate the huge amount of information from sources).

Jamie Young · « **Reply #1 on:** 08/13/2006 04:36 am »

Do we have images of the vehicles these competitors are presenting?

Jim · « **Reply #2 on:** 08/13/2006 12:51 pm »

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Jamie Young - 13/8/2006 12:23 AM

Do we have images of the vehicles these competitors are presenting?

Only Spacehab, RP Kistler and Transformational Space have shown their concepts. They on each's respective websites

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #3 on:** 08/13/2006 02:00 pm »

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Jamie Young - 13/8/2006 5:23 AM

Do we have images of the vehicles these competitors are presenting?

Spacehab:

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #4 on:** 08/13/2006 02:02 pm »

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Jamie Young - 13/8/2006 5:23 AM

Do we have images of the vehicles these competitors are presenting?

T/Space:

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #5 on:** 08/13/2006 02:06 pm »

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Jamie Young - 13/8/2006 5:23 AM

Do we have images of the vehicles these competitors are presenting?

And RP Kistler are launching wine bottles, if you type that into google images

Thankfully, the real concept is hidden away...

simonbp · « **Reply #6 on:** 08/13/2006 03:34 pm »

Don't forget the Magic Dragon!

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1095

http://images.spaceref.com/news/2006/space.x.11.m.jpg">

Simon

Jim · « **Reply #7 on:** 08/13/2006 04:07 pm »

I find it funny that some of these "New Space" companies are using the standard aerospace contractors as primes/subs. Not really so "New"space. Just a shift in financial risk

Peter NASA · « **Reply #8 on:** 08/13/2006 04:26 pm »

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simonbp - 13/8/2006 10:21 AM

Don't forget the Magic Dragon!

Simon

I think you might want to forget about that

Stowbridge · « **Reply #9 on:** 08/13/2006 06:11 pm »

Who is favorite?

vt_hokie · « **Reply #10 on:** 08/13/2006 06:42 pm »

This is my favorite!

Jim · « **Reply #11 on:** 08/13/2006 07:56 pm »

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vt_hokie - 13/8/2006 2:29 PM

This is my favorite!

Doubt they are going to use it for COTS

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #12 on:** 08/14/2006 02:36 pm »

Results will be public the day after the decision:

NASA Announces Crew and Cargo Transportation Partners

NASA Exploration Systems' managers will host a press conference at 4 p.m. EDT Friday, Aug. 18, to announce the organizations selected to develop and demonstrate commercial orbital transportation services. The services could pave the way for contracts to launch and deliver crew and cargo to the International Space Station.

The press conference will be in the NASA Headquarters auditorium, 300 E Street S.W., Washington, and it will air live on the Web and NASA TV. Reporters may ask questions from participating NASA locations. Reporters should coordinate with local agency centers by 4 p.m. EDT Thursday, Aug. 17 for access information.

Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate Scott Horowitz and Commercial Crew/Cargo Project Manager Alan Lindenmoyer will announce the selections and discuss the program.

Framis · « **Reply #13 on:** 08/15/2006 04:04 am »

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MAF and Lockheed are also major players in the NASA's new focus on exploration, but - according to sources - are expected to lose out on the CEV (Crew Exploration Vehicle) contract to Boeing/NG when it is announced by NASA on August 31.

Really? The crew at MSFC sure has some strange rumors. JSC is dead silent on this issue.

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With ATK developing the 5 segment booster for the CLV (Crew Launch Vehicle), Lockheed Martin and Michoud will be in charge of the upper stage (or second stage) of the CLV, utilising MAF's tank production systems.

Um. Griffin has said MAF will build the upper stage tank. The upper stage hasn't been contracted yet, unlike the first stage that has already been sole sourced. The indications are that the second stage will be bid. An Boeing has an edge, since the engine is theirs. Kind of turns the "LM gets CLV second stage so Boeing gets CEV" thinking on its head.

James (Lockheed) · « **Reply #14 on:** 08/15/2006 04:23 am »

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Framis - 14/8/2006 10:51 PM
Kind of turns the "LM gets CLV second stage so Boeing gets CEV" thinking on its head.

Depends on who you speak to, but as with your comment about AORP, things have moved on.

yinzer · « **Reply #15 on:** 08/15/2006 04:34 am »

It's been observed elsewhere, but I'll point it out again, that 4 p.m. on a Friday is not the time you announce information that you want people to pay attention to. Maybe nothing, maybe interesting.

kraisee · « **Reply #16 on:** 08/15/2006 10:38 am »

Framis, don't forget that the rocket engine company in question (Rocketdyne) was actually sold by Boeing last year, so the engine no longer belongs to them. It belongs to Pratt & Whitney these days.

While Boeing possibly has more experience with it, it isn't exclusive to them any more. LM could still make that stage after all.

As an aside, has anyone else noticed that P&W just about has a monopoly on all the significant liquid engines available in the US these days? They're even the only ones with the licence to the Russian RD-180 too!

Ross.

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #17 on:** 08/15/2006 01:39 pm »

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Framis - 15/8/2006 4:51 AM

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MAF and Lockheed are also major players in the NASA's new focus on exploration, but - according to sources - are expected to lose out on the CEV (Crew Exploration Vehicle) contract to Boeing/NG when it is announced by NASA on August 31.

Really? The crew at MSFC sure has some strange rumors. JSC is dead silent on this issue.

Quote
With ATK developing the 5 segment booster for the CLV (Crew Launch Vehicle), Lockheed Martin and Michoud will be in charge of the upper stage (or second stage) of the CLV, utilising MAF's tank production systems.

Um. Griffin has said MAF will build the upper stage tank. The upper stage hasn't been contracted yet, unlike the first stage that has already been sole sourced. The indications are that the second stage will be bid. An Boeing has an edge, since the engine is theirs. Kind of turns the "LM gets CLV second stage so Boeing gets CEV" thinking on its head.

Thanks for your input and welcome to the site (if I've not welcomed you before).

Obviously, please note we work off a host of sources..and I'm just the guy with the typewriter

So I welcome all viewpoints and information, because the more we get (rather than people reading and shaking their heads) the more chance we'll build an objective view on the information that is forthcoming.

So I encourage you to voice such opposing views.

I'd soon have one person saying "Hang on, that doesn't sound right to me" than 10 "Good job" comments.

Framis · « **Reply #18 on:** 08/16/2006 02:36 am »

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yinzer - 14/8/2006 11:21 PM

It's been observed elsewhere, but I'll point it out again, that 4 p.m. on a Friday is not the time you announce information that you want people to pay attention to. Maybe nothing, maybe interesting.

However, if you want to minimize the effects on the stock markets, that is when you announce. That lets the markets have all weekend to digest the news on winners and losers. Some of the companies in the COTS process are thinly traded and this could be a real spike/slump for the winners/losers.

All significant announcements are made after the markets close and Fridays are popular for big contracts.

mvanbavel · « **Reply #19 on:** 08/16/2006 04:08 am »

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Framis - 15/8/2006 9:23 PM

Quote
yinzer - 14/8/2006 11:21 PM

It's been observed elsewhere, but I'll point it out again, that 4 p.m. on a Friday is not the time you announce information that you want people to pay attention to. Maybe nothing, maybe interesting.

However, if you want to minimize the effects on the stock markets, that is when you announce. That lets the markets have all weekend to digest the news on winners and losers. Some of the companies in the COTS process are thinly traded and this could be a real spike/slump for the winners/losers.

All significant announcements are made after the markets close and Fridays are popular for big contracts.

That's very interesting. SpaceHab and SpaceDev are public but not SpaceX, t/Space, Andrews or RocketPlane-Kistler.

I put some $ into SpaceHab. They have lots of space station experience already, they are not tied to one particular launcher.

Kistler is von Braun-era stuff. NASA already tried to steer them a lot of money, they'll want to try again.

I predict it's SpaceHab and Kistler.

FransonUK · « **Reply #20 on:** 08/16/2006 10:55 am »

You can predict here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3862&posts=4&mid=57376#M57376