Author Topic: Eutelsat OneWeb: Constellation - General Thread  (Read 682189 times)

Online meekGee

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So there are folk on Twitter (which I'm taking a needed break from) using Greg Wyler's comments to justify the claim that Starlink was always just about military and commercial use was a "ruse."

...which is poppycock. The US military only spends maybe one billion per year on satcomm, maybe a couple billion if you include other stuff. Starlink (and OneWeb) are not gonna take all of that, either. The commercial market for low latency broadband is literally orders of magnitude larger and is growing much faster (plus Starlink could serve other things like satellite TV, backhaul, etc, beyond just end-user satellite internet).

Yes, the military is gonna be an anchor customer and (because they already have scanning terminals) will be some of the first to use the constellation(s). But Greg Wyler's OneWeb megaconstellation vision was always a LOT more humble than SpaceX's, and this is part of the reason why Greg Wyler took his football and went home, breaking up with SpaceX. And OneWeb's cost per gigabyte transmitted is easily 4 times that of even early Starlink's (consider they used Soyuz at like $50 million per launch at like 36 satellites per launch and each satellite considerably less capable than Starlink's which are launched 60 at a time at $30 million per launch), so I can buy Greg Wyler's argument for OneWeb's commercial/rural appeal being niche without saying the same argument should apply to Starlink. I mean, $80/month vs say $200/month for the same service... (well, Starlink should have lower latency)

The military, doubtless, is much less cost sensitive than consumers and would value some provider diversity and have some of the greatest desire for global low latency telecomms, so the fact they'd be interested in securing OneWeb's assets should come as no surprise.

Yeah, military as an anchor customer, but the real money by far is in consumers. Even take Iridium as an example. The original business case (i.e. wide access to mobile voice before the networks built-out cell service to rural areas) kind of became obsolete before it could be fully built out, so pretty much the military wanted it in the early years....

...but even by 2008, Iridium's commercial revenue exceeded its government revenue by a factor of 2 to 1, and by 2018 or so, commercial revenue exceeded government by 4 to 1.

Military revenue for megaconstellations is only barely enough to keep the minimum constellations alive. Anyone thinking Elon was promoting commercial usage as just a kind of saintly covering over a predominantly military project has absolutely zero idea how investors invest in stuff (and probably just has an ax to grind against him).

Investors with tolerance of risk want huge addressable markets and aren't going to take enormous risks just for a few hundred million a year in military revenue when they could be going after a space LEO telecomms market worth tens or maybe even eventually hundreds of billions of dollars.
Haha just like Mars was a ruse, remember?

There are people on Twitter that say all sorts of things... 

The caravan, however, it don't give a shirt.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
OneWeb seeking to curb employee losses through extra paychecks
by Caleb Henry — May 19, 2020

WASHINGTON — OneWeb is asking its bankruptcy court for permission to issue up to $8.8 million in worker retention and incentive payments to discourage its remaining employees from quitting before the company can sell its spectrum.

https://spacenews.com/oneweb-seeking-to-curb-employee-losses-through-extra-paychecks/

Offline Rondaz

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.@QuiltyAnalytics says it underestimated the potential strategic value of @OneWeb to various State-backed actors, 30 parties interested, sale "turning into a real-life Game of Thrones". Direct DoD investment unlikely but support for friendly buyer possible

https://twitter.com/Megaconstellati/status/1262821719649202180

Offline Rondaz

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.@Eutelsat_SA CEO on @OneWeb: real decisive moment for sale is end of June when firm bids have to be placed, asked whether OneWeb was perfect fit says LEO constellations come with economic challenges conflicting w/ goal of long-term value for shareholders:

https://twitter.com/Megaconstellati/status/1263617627274055680

Offline TorenAltair

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Application withdrawn

https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-AMD-20180104-00004

Withdrawn:
Quote
WorldVu Satellites Limited, doing business as OneWeb, amends its Petition to access the U.S. market through its medium-earth orbit constellation in order to increase the number of satellites requested and to request the use of additional frequencies.

Offline Rondaz

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On eve of bankruptcy, @OneWeb was negotiating financial lifelines in China, Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan. Co has agreed to pay @GuggenheimPtnrs $200,000/month + $3M-$28M transaction fee depending on aggregate sale value.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1263793870405500930

Online gongora

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Application withdrawn

https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-AMD-20180104-00004

Withdrawn:
Quote
WorldVu Satellites Limited, doing business as OneWeb, amends its Petition to access the U.S. market through its medium-earth orbit constellation in order to increase the number of satellites requested and to request the use of additional frequencies.

This was the application to expend the constellation by a couple thousand satellites.  They still have other filings active.
edit: It was to expand their proposed MEO V-band constellation and was almost certainly not gonna happen even if they didn't go bankrupt.  The filing to expand the LEO Ku/Ka-band still exists.
« Last Edit: 05/25/2020 12:33 pm by gongora »

Offline TorenAltair

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LEO extension withdrawn now as well

https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-MOD-20180319-00022

Withdrawn
Quote
WorldVu Satellites Limited (d/b/a OneWeb) proposes to expand its previously authorized 720-satellite LEO constellation in Ku and Ka-band to 1,980 satellites.

Offline Nomadd

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LEO extension withdrawn now as well

https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-MOD-20180319-00022

Withdrawn
Quote
WorldVu Satellites Limited (d/b/a OneWeb) proposes to expand its previously authorized 720-satellite LEO constellation in Ku and Ka-band to 1,980 satellites.

 The same day as....

Today is the end of an FCC processing round.  Multiple network filings coming in.  I haven't read them over yet.  Here is SpaceX:
http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SATLOA2020052600055&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number

Quote
SpaceX is proposing its Gen2 System of 30,000 NGSO satellites.  More than 85% of this system will operate at very low altitudes below 400 km, using eight total orbital altitudes ranging from 328 km to 614 km
« Last Edit: 05/27/2020 12:24 am by Nomadd »
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Online gongora

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...

There were at least seven filings today, and as with the first round we'll see if any of them ever successfully deploy.
« Last Edit: 05/27/2020 01:47 am by gongora »

Online gongora

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OneWeb submitted a filing today to change their second generation constellation to 47,000 satellites.

Offline owais.usmani

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OneWeb submitted a filing today to change their second generation constellation to 47,000 satellites.

https://advanced-television.com/2020/05/27/oneweb-asks-fcc-to-authorize-48000-satellites/

Quote
OneWeb asks FCC to authorise 48,000 satellites

OneWeb, despite being on the sales forecourt as far as its assets are concerned while it is Chapter 11 bankruptcy, is asking the FCC to approve expanding its constellation of satellites to 48,000.

OneWeb adds that its bankruptcy was not helped by the impact of the Coronavirus and was forced to file for Chapter 11. “The company continues the [bankruptcy] restructuring and sale process and has received considerable interest from parties worldwide,” it said in a statement.

OneWeb has asked the FCC to approve a modification to its existing license and to increase the constellation to 48,000 and thus “allow for greater flexibility to meet soaring global connectivity demands”.

The company currently has 74 satellites in orbit and launched the latest batch of 34 craft just a few days before going into bankruptcy protection.

OneWeb says the global restrictions imposed as a result of the Coronavirus pandemic have underscored the criticality of seamless broadband connectivity for economies, businesses, communities and individuals alike. Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellite constellations can reach the most remote and rural areas as well as strategically important locations like the Arctic to provide government, safety and other needs requiring resilient, high-speed, low latency communications.

This latest OneWeb modification application, triggered in part by the FCC’s announcement of a Second Processing Round for Ku/Ka-band systems, seeks to update OneWeb’s existing US authorisation to match the latest system specifications, while also requesting an increase in satellites for the constellation.

Adrian Steckel, CEO of OneWeb said: “We have always believed that LEO satellites must be part of converged broadband network strategies to enable forward-thinking governments and businesses to deliver much-needed reliable connectivity, create more pathways to 5G and connect to the IoT future everywhere on earth. This significant increase in the size of the OneWeb constellation enables long-term flexibility and ensures we will be ready for the demand, future growth, and technology changes to come.”

 :o

Offline envy887

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OneWeb submitted a filing today to change their second generation constellation to 47,000 satellites.

Uhh.. ok. Are there any details on the the constellation in the filing?

Online gongora

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OneWeb submitted a filing today to change their second generation constellation to 47,000 satellites.

Uhh.. ok. Are there any details on the the constellation in the filing?

Links to all of them here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41647.msg2087277#msg2087277

Offline envy887

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They want to add 47,844 satellites at 1200 km, and want to follow UK orbital debris requirements rather than US requirements.

That many satellites at that altitude is a terrible idea. They will be illuminated all night from mid latitude observatories, and any dead satellites will not decay for hundreds of years.

Offline MechE31

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In this article they state "OneWeb has already secured debtor-in-possession financing and expects to soon exit the Chapter 11 process in a manner that maximizes the value of OneWeb's strategic assets and also ensures a viable path forward for its stakeholders and customers," the company said in its FCC application.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/05/spacex-and-oneweb-seek-licenses-to-launch-78000-broadband-satellites

I had not seen the DIP financing mentioned previously.

Online gongora

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In this article they state "OneWeb has already secured debtor-in-possession financing and expects to soon exit the Chapter 11 process in a manner that maximizes the value of OneWeb's strategic assets and also ensures a viable path forward for its stakeholders and customers," the company said in its FCC application.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/05/spacex-and-oneweb-seek-licenses-to-launch-78000-broadband-satellites

I had not seen the DIP financing mentioned previously.

It has been mentioned many times, and it's not that much money.  They need far more.  They need an investor with a lot of money to buy the company or the constellation won't get built.

Offline russianhalo117

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In this article they state "OneWeb has already secured debtor-in-possession financing and expects to soon exit the Chapter 11 process in a manner that maximizes the value of OneWeb's strategic assets and also ensures a viable path forward for its stakeholders and customers," the company said in its FCC application.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/05/spacex-and-oneweb-seek-licenses-to-launch-78000-broadband-satellites

I had not seen the DIP financing mentioned previously.
The DIPF was previously announced to pay for employee retention and ops pay.

Offline Rondaz

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$AMZN is considering investing $2bn in #BhartiAirtel which is yet an @OneWeb shareholder (5.14%). Through Bharti  @amazon could better access India and Africa (via @airtelafrica), both interesting markets for #ProjectKuiper or perhaps soon #AmazOneWeb?

https://twitter.com/Megaconstellati/status/1270129819762786311

Online TrevorMonty



https://amp.ft.com/content/50c3b6dc-2d2f-4bb4-aa9b-b24493315140?__twitter_impression=true

UK government considering buying OneWeb and add GPS to satellites.

Could be bonus for UK small LV companies as they would most likely try and use domestic LVs. If only VO was registered UK company.


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