Eutelsat OneWeb: Constellation - General Thread

[thirtyone]

Anyone have rough cost/unit and unit production numbers for the Kymeta u7 terminals?

https://www.kymetacorp.com/products/terminal/

Ooh, great find. I saw this: https://satellitephonestore.com/catalog/sale/details/kyway-u7-8w-terminal-with-modem

They claim $18k device price, but they're trying to sell service and not the device, so I'm not sure what it'd exactly is. But yeah, low $10,000s.

(edit)
And a second site that says $31k?? https://www.digisat.org/kymeta-kyway-u7-flat-panel-ku-band-antenna

In my experience, this is usually indicative of a relatively low volume industrial market when half of the vendors say "call for quote" and the prices vary this greatly between vendors (some might be giving space to negotiate down)

[ncb1397]

Anyone have rough cost/unit and unit production numbers for the Kymeta u7 terminals?

https://www.kymetacorp.com/products/terminal/

Ooh, great find. I saw this: https://satellitephonestore.com/catalog/sale/details/kyway-u7-8w-terminal-with-modem

They claim $18k device price, but they're trying to sell service and not the device, so I'm not sure what it'd exactly is. But yeah, low $10,000s.

(edit)
And a second site that says $31k?? https://www.digisat.org/kymeta-kyway-u7-flat-panel-ku-band-antenna

In my experience, this is usually indicative of a relatively low volume industrial market when half of the vendors say "call for quote" and the prices vary this greatly between vendors (some might be giving space to negotiate down)

Just look at it this way. Putting a $3 million dollar AESA radar on a $100 million dollar fighter jet makes sense. It is only 3% of the cost of the aircraft. So, you got a million dollar house. $30,000 is only 3% of the cost. You could probably buy internet broadband from Viasat for 50 years for the cost of the antenna, but you can't play video games on Viasat. So, you can totally justify it to the wife.

edit: I just noticed that if you add the antenna to your cart, it shows it marked down from $30,650. It appears that is the MSRP.

[ncb1397]

Hmm, this came out very recently...

[Asteroza]

Kymeta also recently announced a tieup with Cubic (a cell tower RAN maker), to push for a full integrated tower system that has RAN+terrestrial backhaul+satellite backhaul all in one integrated piece of kit (using Kymeta's antennas for all the parts to make for nice flat pieces that are easier to hide on towers?).

https://www.cubictelecom.com/Media/PressRelease/58

[ncb1397]

Kymeta (www.kymetacorp.com)—the communications company making mobile global—announced the commercial availability of its next generation flat panel electronically steered antenna platform, the Kymeta u8. The new u8 terminal paired with Kymeta’s hybrid satellite-cellular connectivity services transforms the purchase and consumption of mobile data with an all-inclusive hardware, connectivity and services monthly subscription starting at $999. The Kymeta u8 is the world’s only commercially available flat panel electronically steered antenna built specifically for mobility and designed for the needs of both military and commercial customers.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kymeta-making-mobile-global-completing-120000676.html

Well, I guess $1000/month is progress over the $30,000 up front fee previously for the U7.

[gongora]

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1239617700370006017

March 21 launch of 34 @OneWeb satellites on Russia's Soyuz from Baikonur in Kazakhstan still on -- good news for OneWeb since its launch trajectory is forbidden by Kazakh authorities from March 25 to late Aug to protect antelope herds

[Rondaz]

We will livestream the launch on our Facebook page so that everyone can watch the event. We encourage everyone to follow social distancing recommendations and enjoy the launch remotely.

https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1239848815231893505

[Rondaz]

Weather status in Baikonur for Saturday is Green Heavy check mark. Rocket is now on the launch pad and we are continuing to prep for our third #OneWebLaunch.

https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1240333722907533314

[Rondaz]

Looking for something to do Saturday? Watch our next launch from home as another 34 of our satellites launch into space. Lift-off is scheduled for 1:06 PM EST. Our hub for the livestream and information will be our Facebook page: #OneWebLaunch https://facebook.com/onewebofficial/

https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1240699316202692610

[TorenAltair]

Not sure if I missed it somewhere: SoftBank’s OneWeb to Consider Bankruptcy as Cash Dwindles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/softbank-e2-80-99s-oneweb-to-consider-bankruptcy-as-cash-dwindles/ar-BB11qHHB

[ChrisWilson68]

Not sure if I missed it somewhere: SoftBank’s OneWeb to Consider Bankruptcy as Cash Dwindles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/softbank-e2-80-99s-oneweb-to-consider-bankruptcy-as-cash-dwindles/ar-BB11qHHB

It's important to keep in mind that filing for bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean going out of business.  It can just be a way to get out of debt.  Iridium and Globalstar both filed for bankruptcy but kept operating and are still operating today after using bankruptcy to get rid of the debt they used to launch their first generation constellations.

However, bankruptcy is more serious for OneWeb because they are only starting to deploy their constellation.  Bankruptcy would likely make it very difficult for them to raise the huge sums still needed to launch the rest of their system.

Just the fact that they're in a situation right now where they are seriously considering a bankruptcy filing (if, in fact, the report is true) makes it very seriously questionable whether they'll be able to fund the rest of their buildout.

This is not surprising considering the serious economic damage going on right now, which is likely to greatly diminish the supply of capital available, and particularly considering that Softbank, OneWeb's biggest hope for continued investment, has been doing very poorly recently, with billions sunk into unprofitable companies including WeWork and Uber that were already doubtful to generate returns even before the current crisis hit.

[RocketGoBoom]

Not sure if I missed it somewhere: SoftBank’s OneWeb to Consider Bankruptcy as Cash Dwindles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/softbank-e2-80-99s-oneweb-to-consider-bankruptcy-as-cash-dwindles/ar-BB11qHHB

It's important to keep in mind that filing for bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean going out of business.  It can just be a way to get out of debt.  Iridium and Globalstar both filed for bankruptcy but kept operating and are still operating today after using bankruptcy to get rid of the debt they used to launch their first generation constellations.

However, bankruptcy is more serious for OneWeb because they are only starting to deploy their constellation.  Bankruptcy would likely make it very difficult for them to raise the huge sums still needed to launch the rest of their system.

Re-orgs in BK usually only happen when there is revenue and positive cash flow (if the debt were gone) that justifies it. OneWeb doesn't have that.

The best hope that OneWeb has is that someone buys the assets in BK for pennies on the dollar and then completes everything. Maybe SoftBank or someone that owns the debt figures that the best deal is grabbing 100% ownership in BK right now during this crisis.

I suspect that they are having trouble raising money with SpaceX competition and launching so many satellites so cheaply. New investors don't want to take the risk. Existing investors are tapped out. Softbank has too many problems with WeWork and other investments going bad right now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/softbank-s-oneweb-is-said-to-mull-bankruptcy-as-cash-dwindles

[Asteroza]

Would be an opportunity for someone else to grab spectrum rights, especially latecomers...

[ChrisWilson68]

Would be an opportunity for someone else to grab spectrum rights, especially latecomers...

Yes, definitely.  I think the spectrum rights are by far OneWeb's most valuable asset.  I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon would pay billions for those rights, either to acquire the whole company or just to buy the spectrum.

[ChrisWilson68]

Would be an opportunity for someone else to grab spectrum rights, especially latecomers...

Yes, definitely.  I think the spectrum rights are by far OneWeb's most valuable asset.  I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon would pay billions for those rights, either to acquire the whole company or just to buy the spectrum.

However, it's important to note that the spectrum rights go away if the constellation isn't up by a certain date.  And I'm not sure how transferable the rights are to a different constellation.

[ThatOldJanxSpirit]

It looks like One Web is in trouble.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/flj241/softbanks_oneweb_to_consider_bankruptcy_as_cash/

 Their business model really didn’t seem to stack up against Starlink. I can’t see any way back from bankruptcy unless Jeff B can use the tech or the spectrum for Kuiper.

[Asteroza]

Would be an opportunity for someone else to grab spectrum rights, especially latecomers...

Yes, definitely.  I think the spectrum rights are by far OneWeb's most valuable asset.  I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon would pay billions for those rights, either to acquire the whole company or just to buy the spectrum.

However, it's important to note that the spectrum rights go away if the constellation isn't up by a certain date.  And I'm not sure how transferable the rights are to a different constellation.

Amazon might be willing to run the loss leader on putting up the minimum OneWeb constellation to retain spectrum rights, then phase in Project Kuiper sats. But that's a lot of money due to the deadlines and having to launch on currently available launchers. Such a situation might force them to throw money for accelerated launch to make up for any deployment gaps during the bankruptcy preceedings, worst case being asking SpaceX to fill the need...

[ChrisWilson68]

I wonder if the deadlines for putting up constellations or losing spectrum rights will be extended because of the current coronavirus crisis shutting down so much industry.

[niwax]

Not sure if I missed it somewhere: SoftBank’s OneWeb to Consider Bankruptcy as Cash Dwindles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/softbank-e2-80-99s-oneweb-to-consider-bankruptcy-as-cash-dwindles/ar-BB11qHHB

The timing coincides unfortunately with them revealing they were fundraising over the last few weeks. They don't have massive revenues that suddenly dried up, so it looks like their funding fell through.

[Asteroza]

Not sure if I missed it somewhere: SoftBank’s OneWeb to Consider Bankruptcy as Cash Dwindles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/softbank-e2-80-99s-oneweb-to-consider-bankruptcy-as-cash-dwindles/ar-BB11qHHB

The timing coincides unfortunately with them revealing they were fundraising over the last few weeks. They don't have massive revenues that suddenly dried up, so it looks like their funding fell through.

With Softbank reeling from a number of bad investments, they might be persuaded to give up their stake for cash to fill the Vision Fund. Airbus and friends won't be happy about Amazon (and by extension Blue Origin) muscling in though.