Author Topic: Eutelsat OneWeb: Constellation - General Thread  (Read 682264 times)

Online gongora

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Volga-Dnepr flights for Oneweb, seems to be flying satellites to Baikonur and then returning the shipping containers to Titusville.

Offline Chris Bergin

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Offline Rondaz

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Online zubenelgenubi

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Cross-post:
https://spacenews.com/oneweb-plans-april-launch-break-to-tweak-satellite-design/
Quote
Steckel said the number of satellites launched per Soyuz mission is determined by the location of the launch site. Soyuz launches from French Guiana or Kazakhstan will carry 34 satellites, while launches from the Vostochny Cosmodrome in Russia’s far east will carry 36 satellites, he said.

Arianespace’s Ariane 6 flight, now targeted for sometime between October and December, will carry 30 OneWeb spacecraft.

Steckel said OneWeb still hasn’t decided if it will build 900 first-generation satellites, as planned in 2016, or if it will halt at 648 before starting a second generation.

EDIT/ADD: From today's Arianespace web cast of the OneWeb launch from Baikonur:
Arianespace CEO announcing mission success! Nine upcoming OneWeb launches for this year.

Six Soyuz launches from Baikonur and Vostochny.
Two Soyuz launches from Kourou.
One Ariane 62 launch from Kourou.

OneWeb Satellites CEO. Into batch two for satellite production.
« Last Edit: 02/07/2020 02:19 am by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline ChrisWilson68

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I found this quote from the article interesting:

Quote
Steckel said he believes OneWeb’s business plan differs significantly enough from SpaceX that both can coexist.

“They are focused on broadband to the home; we’re focused on connecting people all over the place and on coverage,” he said. “I think there is an opportunity for both companies to be successful.”

The idea that Starlink will be focused only on broadband to the home doesn't fit with what we've been hearing for years from SpaceX.

For example, just recently in Australia SpaceX was added to the list of potential providers and had this to say:

Quote
SpaceX’s Matt Botwin, the company’s director of global satellite government affairs, wrote in a letter to ACMA outlining just how all-encompassing Starlink’s market would be.

“Offer satellite-based broadband and communications services for residential, commercial, institutional, governmental, and professional users throughout Australia,” Botwin wrote.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/australia-regulator-opens-door-for-spacex-starlink-internet-service.html

Offline su27k

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Cross-post:
https://spacenews.com/oneweb-plans-april-launch-break-to-tweak-satellite-design/
Quote
Steckel said the number of satellites launched per Soyuz mission is determined by the location of the launch site. Soyuz launches from French Guiana or Kazakhstan will carry 34 satellites, while launches from the Vostochny Cosmodrome in Russia’s far east will carry 36 satellites, he said.

Arianespace’s Ariane 6 flight, now targeted for sometime between October and December, will carry 30 OneWeb spacecraft.

Steckel said OneWeb still hasn’t decided if it will build 900 first-generation satellites, as planned in 2016, or if it will halt at 648 before starting a second generation.

Why is Ariane 6 carrying less satellites than Soyuz? Are they hedging their bet somewhat, avoiding putting too many in case of failure?

Offline Rondaz

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What a boost of morale! 🚀🛰️ Congratulations to the @OneWeb, @Airbus and @OneWebSatellit1 teams for the first launch of 2020!

https://twitter.com/OneWebSatellit1/status/1225553233323663361

Offline Lars-J

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Any chance of Starlink-like trains of satellites in the sky? What is their deployment orbit?

Offline dror

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Any chance of Starlink-like trains of satellites in the sky? What is their deployment orbit?

Quote
The first two OneWeb’s spacecraft deployed about an hour and 10 minutes after liftoff. The rest deployed in groups of four about once every 20 minutes, with Soyuz’ Fregat upper-stage engine conducting brief firings in between each deployment.

Quote
Soyuz, using a dispenser from Ruag Space, released the satellites at 450 kilometers, from which they will use onboard electric propulsion to climb to their 1,200-kilometer operational orbit.

https://spacenews.com/arianespace-launches-first-large-batch-of-oneweb-satellites-on-soyuz-rocket/

Groups of four at 450 km, so I guess there won't be any visible train
Space is hard immensely complex and high risk !

Offline GWH

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In the web cast they mentioned how each satellite gets deployed by activating a frangible bolt.

Is this still the common method in the industry?  Would it create debris or do they have methods of containing the pieces?

Offline edzieba

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'Frangible bolt' is a common misnomer*, it's actually a nut that contains the charge. The frangible nut is typically caged or otherwise contained in a shield to prevent the fragments going anywhere.



*I'm sure someone, somewhere, has made an actual frangible bolt as a gag just to annoy people.

Offline Rondaz

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UPDATE: Signal acquisition has been confirmed for all 34 satellites. Time to pop the champagne!

https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1225791646907981824

Offline Rondaz

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No separation anxiety here! Our employees show their excitement that signal acquisition has been confirmed for all 34 of our satellites!

https://twitter.com/OneWebSatellit1/status/1225811645861179393

Offline Rondaz

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often asked ‘why 1200km for OneWeb?’ Many reasons, but this pic shows one. It takes more than 5 satellites at 600km to equal 1 satellite at 1200km to cover the same area (assuming a minimum 45 degree elevation angle - anything less is useless as customers are looking at trees)

https://twitter.com/greg_wyler/status/1225870701493735426

Online meberbs

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I found this quote from the article interesting:

Quote
Steckel said he believes OneWeb’s business plan differs significantly enough from SpaceX that both can coexist.

“They are focused on broadband to the home; we’re focused on connecting people all over the place and on coverage,” he said. “I think there is an opportunity for both companies to be successful.”

The idea that Starlink will be focused only on broadband to the home doesn't fit with what we've been hearing for years from SpaceX.
Besides your point, I am confused how exactly they intend to "connect people all over the place" if they aren't giving broadband to the home. Homeowners are people, and home is a place. Vague statements like that make it seem questionable if they have a real plan.

The mention of "coverage" as if SpaceX isn't planning on global coverage is particularly disingenuous. SpaceX will have global coverage too, they just planned their constellation such that they will have more capacity and earlier coverage over significantly populated regions, rather than having initial service only available in the arctic and Antarctica like One Web plans.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1227169832715661312

Quote
For @OneWebSatellit1 Florida plant, pressure is still set at maximum following launch of 34 satellites. Double and triple shifts, 6 days a week to make launch schedule. @OneWeb bit.ly/37k1j3o

Offline thirtyone

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Besides your point, I am confused how exactly they intend to "connect people all over the place" if they aren't giving broadband to the home. Homeowners are people, and home is a place. Vague statements like that make it seem questionable if they have a real plan.

The mention of "coverage" as if SpaceX isn't planning on global coverage is particularly disingenuous. SpaceX will have global coverage too, they just planned their constellation such that they will have more capacity and earlier coverage over significantly populated regions, rather than having initial service only available in the arctic and Antarctica like One Web plans.

So what they mean is that they're partnering with a lot of local communications companies and governments. There have been many announcements - just check their tweet history. I get the feeling they do not expect to have low cost terminals soon, and many of their customers are communications companies which can use a single link to connect far more customers. For example, they are partnering with quite a few cellular communications companies to provide backhaul connectivity for cell towers (that serve many more people per link) in very rural areas with little infrastructure.

Offline ncb1397

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The mention of "coverage" as if SpaceX isn't planning on global coverage is particularly disingenuous. SpaceX will have global coverage too, they just planned their constellation such that they will have more capacity and earlier coverage over significantly populated regions, rather than having initial service only available in the arctic and Antarctica like One Web plans.

Really? My understanding is that SpaceX is not focusing on coverage and won't really be covering far northern latitudes any time soon. That is probably what One Web is referring to when they talk about focusing on coverage. OneWeb prioritizing a out of home niche (like aviation and naval) and Starlink prioritizing in home fixed service explains their different constellation architectures. If Starlink wanted global coverage, they wouldn't have all their satellites at 53 degrees. If OneWeb wanted more capacity over more homes, they wouldn't be in near polar orbits.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2020 09:36 pm by ncb1397 »

Online meberbs

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Really? My understanding is that SpaceX is not focusing on coverage and won't really be covering far northern latitudes any time soon. That is probably what One Web is referring to when they talk about focusing on coverage. OneWeb prioritizing a out of home niche (like aviation and naval) and Starlink prioritizing in home fixed service explains their different constellation architectures. If Starlink wanted global coverage, they wouldn't have all their satellites at 53 degrees. If OneWeb wanted more capacity over more homes, they wouldn't be in near polar orbits.
SpaceX won't have all of their satellites at 53 degrees. Their initial 550 km shell is, but they will be just about done with that by the end of this year. By late 2021, when One Web plans to have full coverage (the relevant definition for "anytime soon") SpaceX will have had plenty of chance to launch some of the ~1200 satellites they plan for 70-81 degree inclinations. If One Web really was focused on coverage, it seems strange that they don't seem to actually provide much coverage overlap at the equator. Full coverage of the poles should be possible with a somewhat smaller inclination while reaching full global coverage sooner (this based on the simulations I have seen provided by OneWeb, I haven't sat down to work it all out in detail.)

If OneWeb really is focused on specific other markets, like aviation, naval, or cellular backbone, then their response to questions like this should say so rather than the vague response that was provided. However, of these, only aviation actually cares about full polar coverage, and wouldn't need the levels of over-coverage at the poles currently observed. (Some polar over-coverage is inevitable for a single inclination global coverage design, but not as much as they have.)

To be clear, I am not disagreeing with their claim that both Starlink and OneWeb can coexist, just their vague and inaccurate rationale for how they are different. "What differentiates you from your competitors" is a basic question any business should be able to answer, and a response that shows ignorance of the plans of their competitor and doesn't clearly explain their own plans is much lower quality than I would expect.

Offline ncb1397

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Really? My understanding is that SpaceX is not focusing on coverage and won't really be covering far northern latitudes any time soon. That is probably what One Web is referring to when they talk about focusing on coverage. OneWeb prioritizing a out of home niche (like aviation and naval) and Starlink prioritizing in home fixed service explains their different constellation architectures. If Starlink wanted global coverage, they wouldn't have all their satellites at 53 degrees. If OneWeb wanted more capacity over more homes, they wouldn't be in near polar orbits.
SpaceX won't have all of their satellites at 53 degrees. Their initial 550 km shell is, but they will be just about done with that by the end of this year. By late 2021, when One Web plans to have full coverage (the relevant definition for "anytime soon") SpaceX will have had plenty of chance to launch some of the ~1200 satellites they plan for 70-81 degree inclinations. If One Web really was focused on coverage, it seems strange that they don't seem to actually provide much coverage overlap at the equator. Full coverage of the poles should be possible with a somewhat smaller inclination while reaching full global coverage sooner (this based on the simulations I have seen provided by OneWeb, I haven't sat down to work it all out in detail.)

The counterpoint being that starlink launch opportunities are listed on SpaceX's smallsat portal tell the end of 2021 and all of them are 53 degrees.

Regardless, the constellation is a paper weight without a ground station nearby. OneWeb could just as easily be talking about their ground network.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2020 10:45 pm by ncb1397 »

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