Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 613492 times)

Offline DreamyPickle

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1880 on: 01/12/2019 05:01 pm »
Is the strategy of catching fairings in a net at least getting closer? The recent video is cool but the system is still failing even in more controlled settings.

Maybe they should invest in waterproofing the fairing instead.

Offline Lars-J

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Fairing reuse
« Reply #1881 on: 01/12/2019 06:00 pm »
Is the strategy of catching fairings in a net at least getting closer? The recent video is cool but the system is still failing even in more controlled settings.

I don’t know - do you have any previous videos to compare against to suggest if they are getting worse? If so, please share them.

Maybe they should invest in waterproofing the fairing instead.

It’s almost as if you intentionally miss Elon statements about this issue. He tweeted about it recently.
« Last Edit: 01/12/2019 06:01 pm by Lars-J »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1882 on: 01/12/2019 06:39 pm »
BTW, here is one of his tweets suggesting that there is a parallel effort to also waterproof the fairings more:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939

Online AC in NC

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1883 on: 01/12/2019 06:51 pm »
Maybe they should invest in waterproofing the fairing instead.
Itís almost as if you intentionally miss Elon statements about this issue. He tweeted about it recently.

I'm not sure the tweet "suggests" a parallel effort enough to justify calling out a fair observation.  YMMV

Online OxCartMark

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1884 on: 01/14/2019 02:51 am »
Do we know about the bouncy raft that's behind Mr. Steven?  This goes back into late December but I haven't seen it discussed here.  Looks to me like a smaller, less maneuverable target.?.  The location of the video is just out of the port.

https://twitter.com/Eugen_Chigarin/status/1079727702553382912

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrC02qu2sP4&feature=youtu.be

Online OxCartMark

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1885 on: 01/24/2019 06:53 pm »
Working on double net double fairing catch in the port:

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-mr-steven-dual-falcon-fairing-recovery-port-testing/?mc_cid=3bc5140e6e&mc_eid=8aac13b5a7



Why'z it that my previous post isn't of any interest to anyone other than myself?

Online AC in NC

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1886 on: 01/24/2019 07:00 pm »
Why'z it that my previous post isn't of any interest to anyone other than myself?

We're sadistic and like to torment you.   ;)

Is there a clear indication of how the two-net scheme works?  It wasn't obvious from my quick glance at the pictures.

Offline envy887

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1887 on: 01/25/2019 12:02 am »
Why'z it that my previous post isn't of any interest to anyone other than myself?

It's of interest, but nobody knows what the floaty bouncy castle is for.

Offline Alastor

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1888 on: 01/25/2019 11:53 am »
Why'z it that my previous post isn't of any interest to anyone other than myself?
It's of interest, but nobody knows what the floaty bouncy castle is for.

Maybe they intend to do their first public landing by having a stunt artist ride a fairing all the way down from orbit and at the end parachute jump from it and land in the inflatable pad ?

More seriously ... Maybe that's what they use to bring the fairing at sea for helicopter pickup before their drop tests ? Or do we know for a fact that the helicopters leave the shore with the fairing in tow ?
« Last Edit: 01/25/2019 11:53 am by Alastor »

Offline su27k

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1889 on: 01/25/2019 11:58 am »
Do we know about the bouncy raft that's behind Mr. Steven?  This goes back into late December but I haven't seen it discussed here.  Looks to me like a smaller, less maneuverable target.?.  The location of the video is just out of the port.

https://twitter.com/Eugen_Chigarin/status/1079727702553382912

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrC02qu2sP4&feature=youtu.be

There's speculation that this is for Dragon: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46136.msg1848694#msg1848694

Online nacnud

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1890 on: 01/25/2019 01:27 pm »
My guess is it's for dragon as well, it's a fair bit denser than the fairings so perhaps a net won't work.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1891 on: 01/25/2019 04:38 pm »
My guess is it's for dragon as well, it's a fair bit denser than the fairings so perhaps a net won't work.

Dragon is incapable of steering, so that seems unlikely. Unless the boat pulling it is super fast and maneuverable.

Online nacnud

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1892 on: 01/25/2019 05:09 pm »
My guess is it's for dragon as well, it's a fair bit denser than the fairings so perhaps a net won't work.

Dragon is incapable of steering, so that seems unlikely. Unless the boat pulling it is super fast and maneuverable.

True, and I have thought about that. However the crew dragon has a rather large amount of RCS/abort propellant on board. So there is a question I would have no idea about how to start answering. Or even if it's worth trying to answer rather than dismissing.

Will crew dragon, while under chutes, have enough cross range and control to hit what looks like the works largest paddling pool?  ???

PS Only see this for cargo crew dragons, initially.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2019 05:11 pm by nacnud »

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1893 on: 01/25/2019 05:20 pm »
Will crew dragon, while under chutes, have enough cross range and control to hit what looks like the works largest paddling pool?  ???

The short answer is "No."  Jim's long answer is "No."  My long answer would be that (1) I don't think they having anything approaching the targeting accuracy from orbit that would even permit this to be entertained, (2) I doubt they have any avionics to support such an attempt, (3) I can't imagine trying to model RCS or whatever vs chutes vs. winds, and (4) doesn't it have a really toasty butt that would cause problems? 


Online nacnud

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1894 on: 01/25/2019 07:01 pm »
1) Landing accuracy is good for dragon, I can't find a reference but I have it in my head that it's on the order of a few km
2) It knows where is it, it can be told where to land and winds before starting entry, no need for com between landing inflatable and dragon although that may help.
3) I can, I guess I'm more imaginative :D
4) You could almost pick shuttle tiles out of a furnace and not get burned, they take a few seconds to cool, youtube has some amazing vids. Small meteorites that reach the Earth are at ambient temperature or even cold, the heat all being used to ablate away the surface. These things are counter intuitive.

I'm only suggesting that the RCS would be used to have a cross range of a few hundred meters, if that, over the course of its parachute decent and really only for terminal guidance.

Still no closer to answering the questions, this is the fairing thread though...

Online OxCartMark

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1895 on: 01/26/2019 01:21 am »
I think if you put a 9000 kg thing that isn't a fairing in the middle of that flat rubber diaphragm bottom you'd have the 9000 kg thing go down until it found its own buoyancy with the water, perhaps 2 feet down and the flat bottom would be wrapped around it the way a half inflated air matress in a pool would be if you sat crossways on the middle of it.  And the outer flotation ring would be puckered up and uninvolved with bouying the 9000 kg thing.

this is the fairing thread though...

And on the subject of fairings, although SpaceX recovered the Texas fairing not far from where they expected to I doubt they'll be able to reuse it.  Which is the way its been with all of their fairings so far.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2019 01:23 am by OxCartMark »

Offline photonic

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1896 on: 01/27/2019 06:16 pm »
I think if you put a 9000 kg thing that isn't a fairing in the middle of that flat rubber diaphragm bottom you'd have the 9000 kg thing go down until it found its own buoyancy with the water, perhaps 2 feet down and the flat bottom would be wrapped around it the way a half inflated air matress in a pool would be if you sat crossways on the middle of it.  And the outer flotation ring would be puckered up and uninvolved with bouying the 9000 kg thing.

[...]

I think that in case of either a fairing or a Dragon, the point of the oversized rubber raft is not to provide flotation (since either will do that by itself in a way you described), but to prevent it from getting wet. If that works, it might save a lot on waterproofing/refurbishment after salt water exposure.

Crazy idea: since this device is obviously too small of a bullseye given the landing accuracy, could it be a test article of something that will be attached to the fairing/Dragon itself and inflated just before touchdown, MER style? The device can probably be folded into a pretty small package, and additionally only would need a gas bottle and some hatch that pops off. (I know similar ideas have been suggested up-thread, but this might be a first glimpse of the actual thing).
« Last Edit: 01/27/2019 06:35 pm by photonic »

Online Comga

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1897 on: 01/27/2019 07:10 pm »
1) Landing accuracy is good for dragon, I can't find a reference but I have it in my head that it's on the order of a few km
The first cargo Dragon capsule landed within 0.8 km of the target.  The second was nearly as close IIRC.  (I used to track these and compared them to the landing accuracy of Soyuz, which was and is around 11 km.)  So less than "a few km" :)

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2) It knows where is it, it can be told where to land and winds before starting entry, no need for com between landing inflatable and dragon although that may help.
A Dragon will descent at a much steeper angle, partly because it's heavier, although the parachute is larger, but of course those are circular, not parafoils converting downward motion to forward motion.  A capsule should be much easier to chase than a fairing.

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3) I can, I guess I'm more imaginative :D
Ditto ;)

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4) You could almost pick shuttle tiles out of a furnace and not get burned, they take a few seconds to cool, youtube has some amazing vids. Small meteorites that reach the Earth are at ambient temperature or even cold, the heat all being used to ablate away the surface. These things are counter intuitive.

I'm only suggesting that the RCS would be used to have a cross range of a few hundred meters, if that, over the course of its parachute decent and really only for terminal guidance.

While they could use the RCS for targeting before drogue deployment, like a booster reentry burn, it's probably not necessary.  However, if it would help, you can bet SpaceX would eventually test it.

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Still no closer to answering the questions, this is the fairing thread though...
A little bit of thread wander is as tolerable as a little bit of wind drift on a gliding fairing.  :)
« Last Edit: 01/27/2019 07:11 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online Rondaz

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1898 on: 01/29/2019 02:34 pm »
SpaceX fairing catcher Mr. Steven heads for Panama Canal after one last drop test

By Eric Ralph  Posted on January 29, 2019

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-fairing-catcher-mr-steven-panama-canal-final-drop-test/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1899 on: 01/29/2019 11:22 pm »
« Last Edit: 01/29/2019 11:22 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

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