Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 551008 times)

Online John Alan

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1700 on: 06/07/2018 10:40 PM »
So what’s the next step after they successfully capture one?

How do they extend the process to getting them both?

Program one to loiter around going in circles more while they catch the first, then very rapidly lower it to the deck and shove it forward while the ship is repositioning to catch the second one? That would look pretty dramatic.

Hire a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th boat on long term leases and complete you fleet on both coasts...  ;)

Offline Ludus

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1701 on: 06/07/2018 10:46 PM »
So what’s the next step after they successfully capture one?

How do they extend the process to getting them both?

Program one to loiter around going in circles more while they catch the first, then very rapidly lower it to the deck and shove it forward while the ship is repositioning to catch the second one? That would look pretty dramatic.

I’ve always assumed a second boat.

That’s cheating.

Offline EnigmaSCADA

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1702 on: 07/06/2018 03:57 PM »
Has there been any reasoned speculation or maybe even an explanation from spaceX (not that they owe one) for there not being video (live or recorded) of fairing recovery attempts?

One of the things that currently makes SpaceX undisputably the most interesting launch provider (yes, undisputably, I don't think I could seriously entertain a counter argument) is their openness, willingness, and daring to attempt difficult things with high failure probabilities in a public manner, unafraid of embarrassment and criticism.

I suppose it may not be worth the FTE time or money to setup the infrastructure for a live feed from the ship (yet, if I had to bet, I'd be inclined to guess they do have this) but surely at a minimum they have engineering cameras on board ship or possibly even the fairing that are recording these attempts, right?

I realize it's easy for me to suggest from my desk chair and it's quite a luxury what they already display to the interested public under no obligation.... But I want to see it happening! Even the failures where the Mr. Steven crew are scratching their heads thinking "hmmm, the fairing should have been here a minute ago".

Offline Cheapchips

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1703 on: 07/06/2018 09:35 PM »
Has there been any reasoned speculation or maybe even an explanation from spaceX (not that they owe one) for there not being video (live or recorded) of fairing recovery attempts?

One of the things that currently makes SpaceX undisputably the most interesting launch provider (yes, undisputably, I don't think I could seriously entertain a counter argument) is their openness, willingness, and daring to attempt difficult things with high failure probabilities in a public manner, unafraid of embarrassment and criticism.

I suppose it may not be worth the FTE time or money to setup the infrastructure for a live feed from the ship (yet, if I had to bet, I'd be inclined to guess they do have this) but surely at a minimum they have engineering cameras on board ship or possibly even the fairing that are recording these attempts, right?

I realize it's easy for me to suggest from my desk chair and it's quite a luxury what they already display to the interested public under no obligation.... But I want to see it happening! Even the failures where the Mr. Steven crew are scratching their heads thinking "hmmm, the fairing should have been here a minute ago".

Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1704 on: 07/07/2018 02:10 PM »
Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.
Yep. Concern trolls are everywhere.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2018 02:46 PM by Lar »
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Offline speedevil

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1705 on: 07/07/2018 08:05 PM »
Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.
Has there ever been any of these headlines, such as they are, that did not originate from data SpaceX provided?
Simply not saying anything about testing would fix that.

Offline testguy

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1706 on: 07/07/2018 09:01 PM »
Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.
Has there ever been any of these headlines, such as they are, that did not originate from data SpaceX provided?
Simply not saying anything about testing would fix that.

Zuma gets close to ringing that bell.   Please let’s not get into another long discussion about Zuma..
« Last Edit: 07/07/2018 09:03 PM by testguy »

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1707 on: 07/07/2018 10:36 PM »
Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.
Has there ever been any of these headlines, such as they are, that did not originate from data SpaceX provided?
Simply not saying anything about testing would fix that.

EM likes positive press and goes to war against things he doesn’t like.  Why show the slow trickle of development then eventual success, when surely, some stories will say ‘They finally succeeded.’  When it works then I think we’ll see videos.
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Offline johnfwhitesell

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1708 on: 07/08/2018 03:12 AM »
Why are fairings so expensive anyways?

Offline Comga

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1709 on: 07/08/2018 04:02 AM »
Why are fairings so expensive anyways?

Do you really need to ask that?
Come on!
Giant, hollow, light-weight, composite, acoustic absorbing, supersonic, aerospace structures that withstand substantial acceleration and aerodynamic loads before faultlessly releasing and falling away?
At $6M SpaceX's fairings are probably a bargain.
« Last Edit: 07/08/2018 04:25 PM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline woods170

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1710 on: 07/08/2018 01:38 PM »
Why are fairings so expensive anyways?

Do you really need to ask that?
Cone on!
Giant, hollow, light-weight, composite, acoustic absorbing, supersonic, aerospace structures that withstand substantial acceleration and aerodynamic loads before faultlessly releasing and falling away?
At $6M SpaceX's fairings are probably a bargain.

The manufacturing process of fairings is very much "hands-on". In other words: very labor intensive and therefore expensive.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1711 on: 07/08/2018 01:54 PM »
Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.
Yep. Concern trolls are everywhere.
Given that there is significant potential for cost reduction, and the speeds and altitudes not far out of what SX have already demonstrated it seems very unlikely that SX will abandon attempts at fairing recovery and reuse.

As others have noted SX fairings appear (are?) substantially more heavily built than competitors. This creates a technology barrier that their competitors cannot climb without substantial redesign, while continuing to lower SX'x costs.

How long it takes for SX to demonstrate recovery (and later reuse) and, just as importantly, over what envelope of missions can it be done is anybodies guess. Personally I think they will have recovered a complete fairing by the end of 2018. 

OTOH we know they like to either retire "first of a kind" hardware or subject it to extended inspection before reuse.  So fairing reuse would be 6-12 months later IMHO.
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Online deruch

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1712 on: 07/08/2018 11:55 PM »
Speculation on my part, but they probably want to avoid the "SpaceX fails to capture fairing again", "SpaceX fairing crash lands into the sea" headlines.
Has there ever been any of these headlines, such as they are, that did not originate from data SpaceX provided?

No.  The industry press, which might report on these activities even in the absence of SpaceX provided material/data, understands and reports with proper context regardless of the source/data/images.  It's when the "general" media start reporting on the flashy stuff just to get views/clicks that we get the real crap headlines/stories.  And they only ever get clued into it because SpaceX puts out a flashy/cool video.

Sort of similar to the effect of "Those who know don't talk.  Those who talk don't know."
« Last Edit: 07/08/2018 11:55 PM by deruch »
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Offline YEGLego

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1713 on: 07/09/2018 01:18 PM »
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-mr-steven-upgraded-arm-installed-catch-fairing/

Teslarati article showing one of Mr. Steven's new arms installed, as well as an unknown inflatable raft nearby.

Offline venir

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1714 on: 07/11/2018 04:35 PM »
Teslarati reporting that arm upgrade on Mr. Steven is complete. Just waiting on new ~40,000 sq ft net.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-mr-steven-arm-upgrade-complete-quadruple-size-net/
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 04:37 PM by venir »

Offline biosehnsucht

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1715 on: 07/11/2018 09:34 PM »
Are the new arms permanently fixed in place, and a potential hazard to other boats when coming and going in the narrower channel areas? Or can they still be folded/swung into the footprint of the boat?

Feels like it needs some orange flags hanging off the tips and WIDE LOAD banners ... :D

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1716 on: 07/11/2018 10:38 PM »
Are the new arms permanently fixed in place, and a potential hazard to other boats when coming and going in the narrower channel areas? Or can they still be folded/swung into the footprint of the boat?

Feels like it needs some orange flags hanging off the tips and WIDE LOAD banners ... :D

Elon tweeted that they are retractable.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1017053826640048128
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Online meekGee

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1717 on: 07/11/2018 11:16 PM »
He went there!

(Trampoline)

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Online deruch

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1718 on: 07/12/2018 09:47 AM »
Teslarati reporting that arm upgrade on Mr. Steven is complete. Just waiting on new ~40,000 sq ft net.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-mr-steven-arm-upgrade-complete-quadruple-size-net/

Comments and posts that are talking about the ship and any modifications being made to it belong in the Mr. Steven FSV Thread: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45083.0 

This thread is about SpaceX's general approach to fairing recovery/reuse and their testing results.  Now that Mr. Steven has its own thread any discussion of ship specific information should be done there.  That way we're not getting parallel conversations about the same information.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2018 10:16 AM by deruch »
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1719 on: 07/13/2018 07:23 PM »
The pictures of the new net deployed are incredible.  Can't wait.

It will be very interesting to see if and when we see 2 ships and fairings being reflown.

End of this year is coming quick but maybe there is an outside shot at that.
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