Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 560881 times)

Offline cwr

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #960 on: 06/25/2017 05:25 PM »
Noticed this photo of the inside of the flag half of the fairing for the Iridium-2 launch from Vandenberg.
Photo was in a SpaceflightNow Article at https://t.co/IjNnm8ja7B
but was credited to Iridium [its the 7th photo from the top].

https://assets.cdn.spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/25145723/DCySv9CU0AA4XqC.jpg


Attached image.

Carl

Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #961 on: 06/25/2017 07:10 PM »
Noticed this photo of the inside of the flag half of the fairing for the Iridium-2 launch from Vandenberg.
Photo was in a SpaceflightNow Article at https://t.co/IjNnm8ja7B
but was credited to Iridium [its the 7th photo from the top].

https://assets.cdn.spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/25145723/DCySv9CU0AA4XqC.jpg


Attached image.

Carl
Discussed previously in this thread starting here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37727.msg1692211.msg#1692211

Offline Silmfeanor

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #962 on: 06/25/2017 09:23 PM »
Tweet by Elon:

Quote
@elonmusk
Replying to @BenjaminCoop3

Getting closer to fairing recovery and reuse. Had some problems with the steerable parachute. Should have it sorted out by end of year.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/879085297526464513


Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #963 on: 06/26/2017 03:39 AM »
I think the recovery half has traditionally been the side with the male latches around the seam. So here i believe we are getting a look inside. but I think the past in flight recovery photos showed two seperate internal plumbing raceways, which at firt glave looks like there is only one here?

And no apparent chute bags.

Could the stuff near the top be an area for 3 copv to be mounted? Maybe the fab shop made a reusable half but they later decided not to fit it out with all the plumbing.

I also am inclined to suspect the three pairs of u-shaped features could be nests for strapping down gas cylinders.

They probably do any drilling, fastening, and/or bonding to the laminate at the factory, so that should include at least the mounting points for any recovery hardware, if not the some of the mounting features themselves. They might be doing so identically for all fairings for ease of configuration control and ability to re-assign hardware to particular launches as they juggle their schedule.

The rest of the recovery hardware might not be installed until either just before shipping to the launch site, or even at the launch site.

If they're only doing recovery testing at Kennedy, which makes some sense, then here's little reason for the hardware to be installed for a Vandenberg launch.

If they are not recovering iridium's vandy fairing, perhaps the reason is that Go Searcher is on the east coast. That is, perhaps the recovery effort needs a bit of ground support, and it was not (yet?) worth duplicating or not (yet?) operational on the west coast.

Not just GO Searcher, but also the engineers and techs responsible for checkout and maybe installation of the recovery hardware.

Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #964 on: 06/26/2017 12:16 PM »
FWIW my new conclusion (after Elon's tweet) is that it's not Go Searcher that's holding things up, but instead that the steerable chute folks had to go back to the drawing board for some part of their system, and the recovery tests are temporarily on hold while they wait for the next-gen chute component to be ready. No sense wasting money testing something they (now) know can't work.
« Last Edit: 06/26/2017 12:17 PM by cscott »

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #965 on: 06/26/2017 04:45 PM »
By end of year they will get ~ 6-10 more chances to test. ~3-4 flights will be Dragon flights additional in next 6 months. This give a total for the year of 18 to 23 flights.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #966 on: 06/29/2017 08:12 PM »
FWIW my new conclusion (after Elon's tweet) is that it's not Go Searcher that's holding things up, but instead that the steerable chute folks had to go back to the drawing board for some part of their system, and the recovery tests are temporarily on hold while they wait for the next-gen chute component to be ready. No sense wasting money testing something they (now) know can't work.


I mostly agree.  There could be some benefit in flying the halves for re-entry and finding the envelop of what can be done to fly these halves.

More data doesn't hurt.

I'm going to need a video of how the bouncy castle is going to work and how long they will float in the ocean before being retrieved.
Jonesing for a copy of 'Tales of Suspense #39'

Offline ValmirGP

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #967 on: 06/29/2017 11:48 PM »
Well, at least now they could theoretically use the landed fairings to test the hardware and software for steering the fairings down with a real article. Since those landed ones are not reusable on a mission, they could always drop them from a plane or helicopter with the revised contraption planned for the recovering until they master the job. And they could test over land also, meaning faster recovery and turn around between trials.

Offline intrepidpursuit

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #968 on: 06/29/2017 11:51 PM »
Well, at least now they could theoretically use the landed fairings to test the hardware and software for steering the fairings down with a real article. Since those landed ones are not reusable on a mission, they could always drop them from a plane or helicopter with the revised contraption planned for the recovering until they master the job. And they could test over land also, meaning faster recovery and turn around between trials.

They are sending two fairing halves into space per month right now. I'm not sure adding to that number is worth any effort at all.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #969 on: 06/29/2017 11:53 PM »
Well, at least now they could theoretically use the landed fairings to test the hardware and software for steering the fairings down with a real article. Since those landed ones are not reusable on a mission, they could always drop them from a plane or helicopter with the revised contraption planned for the recovering until they master the job. And they could test over land also, meaning faster recovery and turn around between trials.

They do test already, I'm sure. Do you think they just attach new things to fairings with a "gee-wiz lets see what this does" attitude?

Offline ValmirGP

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #970 on: 06/30/2017 01:07 AM »
NO, I don't think so. But given the cost of a real fairing, I do believe they tested with some substitute. What I meant is, having a real fairing that was to be sea trash available, they can use those to obtain data from the real article.

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #971 on: 06/30/2017 12:31 PM »
NO, I don't think so. But given the cost of a real fairing, I do believe they tested with some substitute. What I meant is, having a real fairing that was to be sea trash available, they can use those to obtain data from the real article.

Its also cheaper. No special flights with airplanes/helicopters.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline LouScheffer

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #972 on: 07/02/2017 10:43 PM »
RUAG just signed a contract for 18 fairings for Ariane 5 for $112M.  That's $6.2M per fairing.   Especially with booster recovery, that's more evidence the fairing is a substantial part of launch cost, and helps explain why SpaceX is trying to recover them (and makes it seem like it's going to be even harder for others to compete on cost, if they don't follow suit).

EDIT:  Sorry, this is an old contract.  I was confused by the July 3rd date.  But the point stands.
« Last Edit: 07/02/2017 10:44 PM by LouScheffer »

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #973 on: 07/03/2017 02:37 AM »
RUAG just signed a contract for 18 fairings for Ariane 5 for $112M.  That's $6.2M per fairing.   Especially with booster recovery, that's more evidence the fairing is a substantial part of launch cost, and helps explain why SpaceX is trying to recover them (and makes it seem like it's going to be even harder for others to compete on cost, if they don't follow suit).

EDIT:  Sorry, this is an old contract.  I was confused by the July 3rd date.  But the point stands.
Fairing recovery is one thing Ariane or ULA could do in near term to help lower launch costs.

Offline GWH

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #974 on: 07/03/2017 03:04 AM »
Especially for the 5m fairing for ULA.  Go to rocketbuilder.com and check out the price jump from 4m to 5m: $11M difference.

It would be a lesson well spent learning for Vulcan ACES also since that will only fly in 5m variant and stage is fully encapsulated.

Offline Jim

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #975 on: 07/03/2017 06:20 AM »
ACES is not encapsulated

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #976 on: 07/03/2017 06:28 AM »
If I'm not mistaken, RUAG looked earlier to fairing reuse than SpX.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #977 on: 07/13/2017 07:34 PM »
Hi All,

Do we know if the 'bouncy castle' has been attempted for a landing yet, or still in development?

Edit: Also, where is it going to housed and deployed from, I can envision several places to store it and have it expand from.  The most water proof, to me, would be on the exterior of the fairing, before expanding and enveloping the fairing.
« Last Edit: 07/13/2017 07:36 PM by wannamoonbase »
Jonesing for a copy of 'Tales of Suspense #39'

Offline AC in NC

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #978 on: 07/14/2017 12:30 AM »
Edit: Also, where is it going to housed and deployed from, I can envision several places to store it and have it expand from.  The most water proof, to me, would be on the exterior of the fairing, before expanding and enveloping the fairing.

Isn't the Bouncy Castle deployed on surface and the parafoil "flies" the fairing into it?

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #979 on: 07/14/2017 12:36 AM »
Edit: Also, where is it going to housed and deployed from, I can envision several places to store it and have it expand from.  The most water proof, to me, would be on the exterior of the fairing, before expanding and enveloping the fairing.

Isn't the Bouncy Castle deployed on surface and the parafoil "flies" the fairing into it?

Yes, this isn't like a Mars landing where the lander has to carry its own bouncy castle/beach ball.

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