Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 436178 times)

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #520 on: 02/21/2017 01:32 PM »
If I remember correctly there was already a calculation of maximum glide ratio with a parasail and the distance from launch site to location of meco occurs at and it wouldn't make it back. How about grand bahama(freeport) or abaco?

EDIT
« Last Edit: 02/21/2017 02:12 PM by rsdavis9 »
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Online wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #521 on: 02/21/2017 02:09 PM »
Any merit in a poll? Mid air recovery, support ship deck, RTLS, other?

My vote is Mid air recovery depositing the halves on a ship/barge. 
SpaceX, just a few things planned for 2018: FH, Starlink Prototypes, Block 5, Dragon 2, Increased launch rate.

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #522 on: 02/21/2017 02:30 PM »
What Gwen said was, "we're going to try to bring them back"..."we would eventually love to reuse them so you got to land them not in the water".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXYSJF-7Cs?t=13m3s
« Last Edit: 02/21/2017 02:31 PM by Lee Jay »

Offline Daniels30

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #523 on: 02/21/2017 03:42 PM »
Morning/Evening All,

This is regarding the Echostar-23 GTO Mission faring recovery plans.
As this is the first Faring recovery attempt SpaceX has planned i have been thinking on what risks may occur.
Firsty there's weight of the fairing. Presumably this has some kind of heat shield much like stage 1 uses and Dragon to re enter Earth's atmosphere. (obviously not orbital speeds but still a decent amount of velocity just over 9000 Km/H on the SES-9 mission)
There's also a potential for a parachute that would be mounted inside so that's a little more weight to cope with.
What measures would the pneumatically activated fairings clamps have to change in order to achieve sufficient clearance of stage 2? Would a higher pressure charge be adequate in removing the fairings and cleaning F9 safely.
I'd appreciate any responses from folks. 
« Last Edit: 02/21/2017 04:25 PM by Chris Bergin »
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Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #524 on: 02/21/2017 04:12 PM »
"land" makes it sound like mid-air recovery isn't the primary focus right now; they might try to catch it with an ASDS first.  Especially for Echostar, since the ASDS won't need to catch the booster.  We should keep an eye out for the ASDS leaving port.

Offline nacnud

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #525 on: 02/21/2017 04:21 PM »
I wonder if they could be recovered in a similar way to scaneagle by flying into a wire or net.


Offline getitdoneinspace

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #526 on: 02/21/2017 08:32 PM »
I wonder if they could be recovered in a similar way to scaneagle by flying into a wire or net.

That is a very interesting idea. I wonder how much time would pass between the Falcon 9 landing on the ASDS and the two fairing halves arriving at the ASDS. Keying off the "Autonomous" word, just imagine immediately after the Falcon 9 lands a simple robot autonomously secures the rocket to the deck, while at the same time, two autonomous articulating boom lift type devices move to opposite edges of the ASDS and each position themselves to snag one of the fairing halves. The parafoil (para something ?) for each fairing would need to be very accurate, but I would guess this may be easier than landing the 1st stage.  ;)
« Last Edit: 02/21/2017 08:34 PM by getitdoneinspace »

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #527 on: 02/21/2017 09:04 PM »
I don't suppose anybody makes a drone that could catch a fairing half?
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Offline IanThePineapple

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #528 on: 02/21/2017 09:07 PM »
I don't suppose anybody makes a drone that could catch a fairing half?

You'd need a BIG drone
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Offline matthewkantar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #529 on: 02/21/2017 09:45 PM »
just imagine immediately after the Falcon 9 lands a simple robot autonomously secures the rocket to the deck, while at the same time, two autonomous articulating boom lift type devices move to opposite edges of the ASDS and each position themselves to snag one of the fairing halves.

I think it would have to be a different ship. You would not want your safely landed ship getting kerblowed by an incoming fairing half.

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Offline envy887

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #530 on: 02/21/2017 10:34 PM »
I don't suppose anybody makes a drone that could catch a fairing half?

There are some quite large "pilot optional" aircraft.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #531 on: 02/22/2017 01:15 AM »
Midair recovery would require 2 helicopters or drones.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #532 on: 02/22/2017 02:36 AM »
I don't suppose anybody makes a drone that could catch a fairing half?

You'd need a BIG drone

The K-MAX UAV chopper can carry 2.6 tonnes. Used in A'stan.



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Offline meberbs

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #533 on: 02/22/2017 03:58 AM »
I don't suppose anybody makes a drone that could catch a fairing half?

You'd need a BIG drone

The K-MAX UAV chopper can carry 2.6 tonnes. Used in A'stan.


I had actually thought about the K-MAX as well. The K-MAX is actually a regular helicopter retrofitted to act as a UAV. It is probably cheaper to by the regular version (or some other manned helicopter) than pay Lockheed to convert one to a UAV. Also, the K-MAX UAV actually is very light itself, so it may not be best at dynamically grabbing a parachuting fairing.

Some other military drones also might have the payload capacity for a fairing, but again, I think it might actually be safer to go with larger aircraft.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #534 on: 02/22/2017 04:05 AM »
Midair recovery would require 2 helicopters or drones.

Or better yet 2 V-22 Osprey VTOLs. Conventional Helos is relatively slow to transit to a parking orbit at a reasonably high altitude plus a low service ceiling and short range. IMO Helos might only get one shot per sortie to attempt a mid-air recovery of a payload fairing section. If they can be operated from a platform near the recovery site if the helos are not equipped with in-flight refueling.

Online meekGee

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #535 on: 02/22/2017 05:20 AM »
Can they fit two helicopters on the barge?  It halves the required range, and gets rid of endurance issues, since they only take off once the clamp release.

The helicopters should probably be unmanned, since if you have people on the barge at launch time, it complicates things...
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Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #536 on: 02/22/2017 03:05 PM »
We've been over the mid-air recovery options before. It seems you are missing Gwynne's major hint: "land".  What are the possible options that she might call "landing"?

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #537 on: 02/22/2017 03:46 PM »
I think catching them on the deck of a ship is a good possibility. They shouldn't be a risk to personnel on the ship. The fairings can move and steer and the ship can move and steer.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline Semmel

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #538 on: 02/22/2017 05:22 PM »
I think you all miss the unspoken 'eventually' here. Why assume a full fledged recovery procedure at the first try? It would be enough to just have glidechutes or parachutes dumping the fairing into the ocean. Maybe even for multiple flight just to make sure they understand the behaviour. Only then go out with a retrieval method.

Also it seems unlikely that the barge would be considered as a landing base since it might have a rocket sitting in the middle and no personal to handle the fairing half's after dump off. Not impossible but I would consider it unlikely.

Offline SDSmith

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #539 on: 02/22/2017 05:31 PM »
I think you all miss the unspoken 'eventually' here. Why assume a full fledged recovery procedure at the first try? It would be enough to just have glidechutes or parachutes dumping the fairing into the ocean. Maybe even for multiple flight just to make sure they understand the behaviour. Only then go out with a retrieval method.

Also it seems unlikely that the barge would be considered as a landing base since it might have a rocket sitting in the middle and no personal to handle the fairing half's after dump off. Not impossible but I would consider it unlikely.
Don't forget the fairing is quite large. The height is 43' (13.1m) x 17.1 ft (5.2m). 

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