Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 551388 times)

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1020 on: 12/19/2017 04:08 PM »
If they need two ships each coast (because each can only catch one half), the might have to go with a different supplier. SeaTran has an impressive list of vessels:

http://www.seatranmarine.com/vessels_sp.html#

.... But most of them are only 1/2 the horsepower or less, and therefore somewhat slower. Mr. Steven is the only 10000 hp class vessel.

However, maybe they ultimately can get by with 4-5 knots less top speed?

I think it's possible both halves get caught in one net/Castle (or they have a way to use two castles on top of each other or something? don't know what equipment is in the arms....
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Offline dgates

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Time for Fairing to touchdown?
« Reply #1021 on: 12/19/2017 04:23 PM »
Well, we know that from liftoff to booster touchdown is on the order of ten minutes, give or take.  I wonder what the typical timeline might be from launch to fairing touchdown / capture might be?  30 minutes perhaps?  What do ya値l think?
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Online russianhalo117

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1022 on: 12/19/2017 05:20 PM »
If the fairings employ a VHAVHO (Very High Altitude with Very High Opening) or HAHO (High Altitude with High Opening) deployment sequence compared to HALO deployment sequence then precise GPS guided range and targeting becomes possible.

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1023 on: 12/19/2017 05:33 PM »
Any speculation on what direction the fairing would be approaching the quad-arm web-catcher?

- Not from the bow (obviously).

- If it was from the stern then you'd think they would be trying to catch the fairing while the boat was in motion. If so they that implies communications between the boat and the parachute system so that they can be cooperative in the landing.

- If the fairing is meant to approach from the sides then that would imply that the ship would not be moving, so it would be like an ASDS minus the station keeping ability.

Also, is Mr. Steven likely to be manned during a catch attempt?

Edit: Corrected name of Mr. Steven
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 08:28 PM by Coastal Ron »
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Offline RonM

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1024 on: 12/19/2017 05:40 PM »
Any speculation on what direction the fairing would be approaching the quad-arm web-catcher?

- Not from the bow (obviously).

- If it was from the stern then you'd think they would be trying to catch the fairing while the boat was in motion. If so they that implies communications between the boat and the parachute system so that they can be cooperative in the landing.

- If the fairing is meant to approach from the sides then that would imply that the ship would not be moving, so it would be like an ASDS minus the station keeping ability.

Also, is Mr. Stevens likely to be manned during a catch attempt?

From the stern so Mr. Stevens can match the forward speed of the fairing. As long as the parachute system can maintain a steady course there is no need for communication with the boat. Use the maneuverability of Mr. Stevens to gently catch the fairing.

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1025 on: 12/19/2017 05:41 PM »
Mr Steven. SINGULAR

Their naming convention uses first names. EIther Mr. Ed or Lady Edwina depending on the names.

As for direction I suspect Mr Steven would head into the wind, ahead of the fairing, which would approach from behind.  (flying into the wind means the lowest groundspeed for the fairing) Up/down throttle could be used to finesse any altitude overage or shortfall.
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Offline LouScheffer

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1026 on: 12/19/2017 05:49 PM »
I think it's possible both halves get caught in one net/Castle (or they have a way to use two castles on top of each other or something? don't know what equipment is in the arms....
If they put a net across the four arms, then a strong line down the diagonal would divide the net into two parts.  Each could then catch a fairing half without them contacting each other.

Offline leetdan

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1027 on: 12/19/2017 05:57 PM »
Remember this idea is at least two years old at this point, and they've had nearly-intact fairings recovered going back 8 months.  The flight profile should be well established at this point.

I don't think the composite fairing would be a risk to crew inside the metal superstructure of the boat, but the running gear would certainly be at risk if they're way off.  Keep in mind the net is quite a bit bigger than the fairing.

Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1028 on: 12/19/2017 06:36 PM »
Remember Mr. Steven switched coasts to participate in this.  Could be that the Go sisters weren't thrilled about catching a falling fairing (didn't want to have doc ock arms attached, didn't have adequate protection for the bridge, couldn't go fast enough, who knows) and Mr. Steven was the only one they could find who was enthusiastic about (the risk involved in) trying a new thing.

I agree with the posters who think this is likely the setup for a single fairing half for now, and they'd expand it to two (whether that's two in one net or two ships or whatever) only once they have a solid success with single recovery.  It's cheaper to iterate and try new things if you don't have to maintain parallel copies.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 06:39 PM by cscott »

Offline bstrong

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1029 on: 12/19/2017 07:11 PM »
If they need two ships each coast (because each can only catch one half), the might have to go with a different supplier. SeaTran has an impressive list of vessels:
<snip>

Mr. Steven now has a GO (Guice Offshore) logo in the latest images. So, it looks like Guice may be acquiring vessels to SpaceX's specs?

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1030 on: 12/19/2017 07:28 PM »
Mr. Steven and the GO Twins are stablemates now? Or maybe SeaTran leased it to them for a bit?
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Offline freddo411

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1031 on: 12/19/2017 07:39 PM »
Speculation:

Fairing glides in from the stern, lands in a net slightly elevated toward the bow.   Immediately the crew lowers the ropes supporting the bow end of the net, changing the incline toward the bow.   Fairing is slid onto the bow end of the deck, out of the net. (maybe a cushion is setup there already?).

Now the net is reset to catch the second fairing.

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1032 on: 12/19/2017 07:53 PM »
Speculation:

Fairing glides in from the stern, lands in a net slightly elevated toward the bow.   Immediately the crew lowers the ropes supporting the bow end of the net, changing the incline toward the bow.   Fairing is slid onto the bow end of the deck, out of the net. (maybe a cushion is setup there already?).

Now the net is reset to catch the second fairing.

Quite! ... with enough tensioning lines (if we assume net, which just doesn't square with Bouncy Castle but ok) it should be possible to set up a "wave" that pushes the fairing right off, just  like a surfboard riding a wave... If there is a minute of spacing between the two halves, that would be plenty.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Pasander

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1033 on: 12/19/2017 08:35 PM »
If there is a minute of spacing between the two halves, that would be plenty.

If they can open at different altitudes and/or have a different size of parachutes, and can control the glide profile..  I don't see why even 15 minutes of separation in landing times wouldn't be possible. (Full disclosure: I skydived when I was young and immortal.)

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1034 on: 12/19/2017 09:16 PM »
I would think they'd want the equipment to be similar between halves for cost reasons, but all the rest would be variable.
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"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline RocketLover0119

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1035 on: 12/20/2017 01:23 AM »
This is exactly what my speculation is... If this is going to be the method I pray they webcast it

Speculation:

Fairing glides in from the stern, lands in a net slightly elevated toward the bow.   Immediately the crew lowers the ropes supporting the bow end of the net, changing the incline toward the bow.   Fairing is slid onto the bow end of the deck, out of the net. (maybe a cushion is setup there already?).

Now the net is reset to catch the second fairing.
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Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1036 on: 12/20/2017 01:31 AM »
I still think they'll catch a single fairing in the net before they try to catch two.

Online jjyach

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1037 on: 12/20/2017 01:39 AM »
As far as I am aware, all retrieval attempts so far have been for one half, the active half I believe.

Online cppetrie

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1038 on: 12/20/2017 01:49 AM »
My guess is that this launch will be the first legitimate effort to catch the fairing on the fly and keep it from getting wet. My understanding is that the previous attempts have all been controlled descents but still splashing in the water. No catches yet. This looks to me like the first catch attempt and as such will involve only a single fairing half. In addition to giving them an idea of how well the catch idea is going to work it値l also give them a sense of the margin for catching two with a single vessel. It is possible they値l try to control both halves on the way down as part of understanding the timing of catching two. I知 just not convinced they値l actually try to catch both.

Online QuantumG

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1039 on: 12/20/2017 01:52 AM »
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

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