Author Topic: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics  (Read 40665 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #100 on: 01/23/2018 06:51 AM »
I don’t think this has been posted previously on here.

Hypersonic research could lead to future spy drone

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DAYTON — The Air Force Research Laboratory has awarded a $9.8 million contract to the University of Dayton Research Institute to develop materials able to withstand the extremes of hypersonic flight.

http://www.whio.com/news/local-military/hypersonic-research-could-lead-future-spy-drone/rOaqyurXUU0rZ0aM1Aj1xL/

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #101 on: 01/25/2018 06:51 AM »
Hypersonic Race Heats With Boeing Reusable Demonstrator Concept

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Boeing is raising the stakes in the accelerating race for U.S. hypersonic leadership by positioning itself to develop a potential future Mach 5-plus strike-and-reconnaissance aircraft. The move, which was signaled by the unexpected unveiling of a reusable hypersonic demonstrator concept vehicle at an aerospace science and research conference in Florida in early January, directly challenges Lockheed Martin. In 2013, Lockheed revealed plans to develop a Mach 6 successor to the long-retired ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/future-aerospace/hypersonic-race-heats-boeing-reusable-demonstrator-concept

Offline jee_c2

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #102 on: 01/29/2018 07:11 AM »
Chineese resaerch  (suggestion) of new airframe and wing  configuration for hypersonic airplanes: http://www.spacedaily.com/m/reports/A_new_family_of_aerodynamic_configurations_of_hypersonic_airplanes_999.html

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #103 on: 01/30/2018 10:11 PM »
Chineese resaerch  (suggestion) of new airframe and wing  configuration for hypersonic airplanes: http://www.spacedaily.com/m/reports/A_new_family_of_aerodynamic_configurations_of_hypersonic_airplanes_999.html
IIRC the idea of "hypersonic biplanes" was looked at in the 1950's and 60's. AFAIK no looked at the inverse, Merging the two side supports into a central support, like an I beam.

This looks like it really could be a new approach to hypersonic vehicle design.

The joker in the pack is of course how the wing tips respond to hypersonic airflow and how much mass is needed to keep them stiff enough to avoid issues.
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Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #104 on: 02/01/2018 08:36 PM »
US Losing Its Advantage in Race for Hypersonic Technology: Selva

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Did the U.S. military miss its window of opportunity to beat out adversaries in hypersonics development?

That depends on what the U.S. chooses to build even as Russia and China are rapidly advancing the technology, according to the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.


"We have lost our technical advantage in hypersonics; we haven't lost the hypersonics fight," Air Force Gen. Paul Selva told reporters Tuesday during a roundtable discussion in Washington, D.C.

"China has made it a national program, so China's willing to spend tens to up to hundreds of billions to solve the problem of hypersonic flight, hypersonic target designation, and then ultimately engagement," he said.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/01/31/us-losing-its-advantage-race-hypersonic-technology-selva.html?ESRC=dod-bz.nl&spMailingID=1222495&spUserID=Mjk3OTgyNTY0MzkS1&spJobID=480019819&spReportId=NDgwMDE5ODE5S0

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #105 on: 02/02/2018 07:55 PM »
US Losing Its Advantage in Race for Hypersonic Technology: Selva

Quote
Did the U.S. military miss its window of opportunity to beat out adversaries in hypersonics development?

That depends on what the U.S. chooses to build even as Russia and China are rapidly advancing the technology, according to the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.


"We have lost our technical advantage in hypersonics; we haven't lost the hypersonics fight," Air Force Gen. Paul Selva told reporters Tuesday during a roundtable discussion in Washington, D.C.

"China has made it a national program, so China's willing to spend tens to up to hundreds of billions to solve the problem of hypersonic flight, hypersonic target designation, and then ultimately engagement," he said.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/01/31/us-losing-its-advantage-race-hypersonic-technology-selva.html?ESRC=dod-bz.nl&spMailingID=1222495&spUserID=Mjk3OTgyNTY0MzkS1&spJobID=480019819&spReportId=NDgwMDE5ODE5S0
This is excellent news.

NASP consumed close to $3Bn in 1992 $. Close to $5.5bn in today's money.  This should sink a good $10Bn at least.
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #106 on: 02/22/2018 07:55 PM »
Pentagon budget 2019: Russian, Chinese hypersonics emerge as clear concern

http://www.janes.com/article/78096/pentagon-budget-2019-russian-chinese-hypersonics-emerge-as-clear-concern

Offline Lar

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #107 on: 02/22/2018 08:39 PM »
This is excellent news.

NASP consumed close to $3Bn in 1992 $. Close to $5.5bn in today's money.  This should sink a good $10Bn at least.
Either you have an interesting definition of "excellent news" or my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning again.

I do wonder why they keep trying this while a tech that actually might work (SABRE) seems starved for investment.
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Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #108 on: 02/24/2018 09:47 AM »
Either you have an interesting definition of "excellent news" or my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning again.
It's excellent news if you want the Chinese government to waste a very large sum of money on a wild goose chase.
Quote from: Lar

I do wonder why they keep trying this
As Francois Truffaut character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind puts it "It is en affaire sociologique" IOW
A toxic mix of (semi) plausible arguments (that a child can follow), seductive maths and group think.

How could so many learned people be wrong? The answer is the same way the people who studied Phrenology or Eugenics could be.  :(

SCramjet research is like a "Grail quest".
The endlessly long list of hints that maybe will lead to a solution.
The vast riches and glory to the discoverer at the end.
If we just try a little harder. If we just had a little bit faster computers. We are so close. If, if,if.
Add in a few researchers who might not be overly scrupulous in checking their assumptions and an Air Force general with a large budget and keen desire that "Something must be done" and the rest is history.  :(

Then of course there is the huge Kudos of doing something the US has spent (since Johns Hopkins APL work in 1960)  North of $10Bn (in 2018 $) to do and still failed to deliver an operational vehicle with.
The dream that we will be the Wright Brothers successful efforts to the USG's lavishly funded (but failed) efforts to build a "Heavier than air flying machine."

Note that IRL rockets and regular ramjets have got operational flight vehicles up to M5+ for decades and AFAIK no one has really tried to find the upper limit of conventional ramjet action, or even what a viable Mach operating range is. 3 Mach numbers is a "rule of thumb" that does not seem to have a reference basis beyond "After that we have to start to think seriously about the problems."

Hypersonic flight is a challenging field in terms of aerodynamics and structures that can survive prolonged (greater than 15 minutes roughly) without refurbishment at reasonable weight.
OTOH SCramjet development continues to look like a bottomless money pit.

When a SCramjet proponent writing in Aerospace America says essentially "The only way to develop a full size SCramjet aircraft is to do develop a full size SCramjet aircraft,"  because between the uncertainties of the maths driving the CFD simulations and the scale factors when you use models that is the only way to be sure you'll get a working vehicle you have to ask "Why bother?" (with SCramjets). :(
« Last Edit: 02/24/2018 10:05 AM by john smith 19 »
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #109 on: 03/01/2018 07:42 PM »
Quote
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon will ramp up research on hypersonic weapons with a stunning 136 percent increase in the 2019 budget request. Here’s the breakdown of the $257 million:

$139.4 million, the lion’s share, goes to the Air Force-DARPA collaboration on rocket-propelled hypersonics, Tactical Boost Glide (TBG), which will produce an “operational prototype” by 2023;
$14.3 million goes to Air-Force work on jet-propelled hypersonics, the Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept (HAWC), which DARPA is hoping the Navy will join.
$50 million goes to a new joint venture with the Army called Operational Fires (OPFIRES), part of the Army’s new emphasis on long-range artillery and missiles; and
$53 million goes to the Advanced Full Range Engine (AFRE) for future hypersonic vehicles.

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/03/dod-boosts-hypersonics-136-in-2019-darpa/

Offline Star One

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General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #110 on: 03/02/2018 08:53 AM »
Hypersonic Weapons Enter Service with Russian Aviation

Quote
Vladimir Puttin, the President of the Russian Republic confirmed today that Russia began deploying new strategic weapons that are virtually immune to enemy missile defense capabilities. These weapons include a hypersonic air-launched surface attack missile and surface-launched weapon, that can be used with a nuclear or conventional warhead. Russian planners believe the new weapons follow innovative designs making them immune to current and future ballistic missile defenses. Representing new weapon categories, both systems are not likely to be covered by the new Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START).

http://defense-update.com/20180302_new_russian_strategic_weapons.html

U.S. Hypersonic Weapons ‘Coming’ As Putin Touts Russia’s Lead

Quote
As Russian President Vladimir Putin displayed video of the country’s Kinzhal air-launched hypersonic strike missile in his March 1 state of the union address, Darpa’s director confirmed the U.S. will flight test operational prototypes of a similar weapon in ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/us-hypersonic-weapons-coming-putin-touts-russia-s-lead
« Last Edit: 03/02/2018 10:30 AM by Star One »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #111 on: 03/02/2018 10:55 AM »
Quote
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon will ramp up research on hypersonic weapons with a stunning 136 percent increase in the 2019 budget request. Here’s the breakdown of the $257 million:

$139.4 million, the lion’s share, goes to the Air Force-DARPA collaboration on rocket-propelled hypersonics, Tactical Boost Glide (TBG), which will produce an “operational prototype” by 2023;
$14.3 million goes to Air-Force work on jet-propelled hypersonics, the Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept (HAWC), which DARPA is hoping the Navy will join.
$50 million goes to a new joint venture with the Army called Operational Fires (OPFIRES), part of the Army’s new emphasis on long-range artillery and missiles; and
$53 million goes to the Advanced Full Range Engine (AFRE) for future hypersonic vehicles.

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/03/dod-boosts-hypersonics-136-in-2019-darpa/
Good to see the bulk is going on rocket propelled hypersonics, which are known to work, rather than the still highly speculative SCramjet. 
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #112 on: 03/02/2018 11:06 AM »
Quote
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon will ramp up research on hypersonic weapons with a stunning 136 percent increase in the 2019 budget request. Here’s the breakdown of the $257 million:

$139.4 million, the lion’s share, goes to the Air Force-DARPA collaboration on rocket-propelled hypersonics, Tactical Boost Glide (TBG), which will produce an “operational prototype” by 2023;
$14.3 million goes to Air-Force work on jet-propelled hypersonics, the Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept (HAWC), which DARPA is hoping the Navy will join.
$50 million goes to a new joint venture with the Army called Operational Fires (OPFIRES), part of the Army’s new emphasis on long-range artillery and missiles; and
$53 million goes to the Advanced Full Range Engine (AFRE) for future hypersonic vehicles.

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/03/dod-boosts-hypersonics-136-in-2019-darpa/
Good to see the bulk is going on rocket propelled hypersonics, which are known to work, rather than the still highly speculative SCramjet.

Of course a lot of that funding could be buried in the Black Budget.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #113 on: 03/03/2018 01:05 PM »
Quote
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon will ramp up research on hypersonic weapons with a stunning 136 percent increase in the 2019 budget request. Here’s the breakdown of the $257 million:

$139.4 million, the lion’s share, goes to the Air Force-DARPA collaboration on rocket-propelled hypersonics, Tactical Boost Glide (TBG), which will produce an “operational prototype” by 2023;
$14.3 million goes to Air-Force work on jet-propelled hypersonics, the Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept (HAWC), which DARPA is hoping the Navy will join.
$50 million goes to a new joint venture with the Army called Operational Fires (OPFIRES), part of the Army’s new emphasis on long-range artillery and missiles; and
$53 million goes to the Advanced Full Range Engine (AFRE) for future hypersonic vehicles.

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/03/dod-boosts-hypersonics-136-in-2019-darpa/
Good to see the bulk is going on rocket propelled hypersonics, which are known to work, rather than the still highly speculative SCramjet.

Of course a lot of that funding could be buried in the Black Budget.
Anything's possible in the secret budget, because it's well, secret.

Like the "Aurora" successor to the SR71 that was supposed to be flying in the 80's and 90's, perhaps?
Great story.

Pity it didn't actually exist.  :(

There's a reason why the F117 and B2 are sub sonic. A M1+ vehicle that is invisible on infra red is a fantasy.  It will light up the screens on an IR sensor like a Christmas tree, even if it's got an RCS of a small stone. And by now every major power should be familiar with the myth, and reality of stealth. IOW they should all have IR sensors on major air, sea and land vehicles and installations. The only way to not be noticed would be to fly a trajectory like a meteor, and as soon as it got slow enough someone would shoot the "meteor" down. 

As for the Russian reports of a super duper M5 missile, there's a difference between what can be shown on Computer Generated Imagery (nearly anything) and what can be achieved IRL. 
 
It's probably more real that the MHD drive systems Reagan supporters believed had been fitted to Soviet submarines in the Cold War.

That also turned out to be a total fantasy.

BTW the US had made much of the threat of M5 missile but it appears the FSU has had M5 capable missiles since the mid 80's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system

and up to M5.9 in the last decade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system

So it's not like the US has had no notice of what the FSU is capable of (or anyone else with a big enough rocket attached).
« Last Edit: 03/03/2018 01:43 PM by john smith 19 »
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #114 on: 03/05/2018 10:29 AM »
Someone in Lockheed has dusted off the RATTLRS model again.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/970027897254653952


Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #115 on: 03/26/2018 09:57 AM »
In the current Skylon thread a poster reported a presentation by Mark Wood. This section caught my eye.
Quote
Testbed designs: Slides showed a single-engine testbed looking a bit like a D-21 with a belly-mounted delta and no strakes. Mark confirmed this was the current concept for the test vehicle (though of course subject to change).

Testing timeline (admitted to be aggressive):
2019 - Expected to start seeing HEX spinout developments
2023 - Integrated engine test
2024 - Test vehicle flight

Unless they plan to make the test vehicle expendable (just a single flight to demonstrate the test engine is flight weight) this will be the first reusable hypersonic aircraft since the X-15.

This potentially makes it a very valuable research asset for hypersonics researchers around the globe, depending on what data it's designed to collect and what, where (and even if) it's designed to carry a payload, other than it's built in instruments.

AFAIK the record for hypersonic flight under thrust is the X51's 2013 flight of 210secs at > M5 (with a target of 300secs), and was expendable.

AIUI the key objective for the REL flight vehicle is to prove out the inlet design and (ideally) the full closure and switch over to rocket mode.  In principle this doesn't need a long flight at >M5.

The question is what sort of cruise duration could you pack into a vehicle with a 20 tonne thrust engine, given it will probably need to be able to take off from the ground (which alone would be a significant innovation for this sort of vehicle) as I don't think REL are planning to become an aircraft operator like Orbital with Stargazer. 
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Star One

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General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #116 on: 03/26/2018 02:37 PM »
In the current Skylon thread a poster reported a presentation by Mark Wood. This section caught my eye.
Quote
Testbed designs: Slides showed a single-engine testbed looking a bit like a D-21 with a belly-mounted delta and no strakes. Mark confirmed this was the current concept for the test vehicle (though of course subject to change).

Testing timeline (admitted to be aggressive):
2019 - Expected to start seeing HEX spinout developments
2023 - Integrated engine test
2024 - Test vehicle flight

Unless they plan to make the test vehicle expendable (just a single flight to demonstrate the test engine is flight weight) this will be the first reusable hypersonic aircraft since the X-15.

This potentially makes it a very valuable research asset for hypersonics researchers around the globe, depending on what data it's designed to collect and what, where (and even if) it's designed to carry a payload, other than it's built in instruments.

AFAIK the record for hypersonic flight under thrust is the X51's 2013 flight of 210secs at > M5 (with a target of 300secs), and was expendable.

AIUI the key objective for the REL flight vehicle is to prove out the inlet design and (ideally) the full closure and switch over to rocket mode.  In principle this doesn't need a long flight at >M5.

The question is what sort of cruise duration could you pack into a vehicle with a 20 tonne thrust engine, given it will probably need to be able to take off from the ground (which alone would be a significant innovation for this sort of vehicle) as I don't think REL are planning to become an aircraft operator like Orbital with Stargazer.

I can tell you one thing that any vehicle will not be tested here for a whole variety of reasons, it will either be Australia or the US.
« Last Edit: 03/26/2018 02:46 PM by Star One »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #117 on: 03/26/2018 04:49 PM »
I can tell you one thing that any vehicle will not be tested here for a whole variety of reasons, it will either be Australia or the US.
Not necessarily. There are test ranges in the UK (The one out over Cardogan bay) and the projected Newquay site.

I think the issue would be supporting a remote team. The US is an ITAR accident waiting to happen. There is precedent for this. The former Soviet Union shipped a pair of their space nuclear reactors to the US for testing (IIRC they were not fueled) then the US said they could not be "exported" back to their country of origin.   :(

The last time ITAR was negotiated the UK expected a waiver on ITAR restrictions. Y'know, Americas closest ally and all that?
In fact it got "accelerated" clearance. Which depends on how heavy a work load they have down at the State Department (which has had a few holes in its senior management lately.  :( ).

Keep in mind any flight is likely to be quite short. Depending on direction any take off from Cardogan bay would be out into the Irish Sea or the Atlantic. How many people would notice 15 minutes in the middle of the day?

If flying test runs for other researchers did become a regular occurrence I think they'd like to keep the team close to home for data analysis and vehicle changes, such as installing new test hardware.   
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Hog

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #118 on: 03/26/2018 05:15 PM »
In the current Skylon thread a poster reported a presentation by Mark Wood. This section caught my eye.
Quote
Testbed designs: Slides showed a single-engine testbed looking a bit like a D-21 with a belly-mounted delta and no strakes. Mark confirmed this was the current concept for the test vehicle (though of course subject to change).

Testing timeline (admitted to be aggressive):
2019 - Expected to start seeing HEX spinout developments
2023 - Integrated engine test
2024 - Test vehicle flight

Unless they plan to make the test vehicle expendable (just a single flight to demonstrate the test engine is flight weight) this will be the first reusable hypersonic aircraft since the X-15.

This potentially makes it a very valuable research asset for hypersonics researchers around the globe, depending on what data it's designed to collect and what, where (and even if) it's designed to carry a payload, other than it's built in instruments.

AIUI the key objective for the REL flight vehicle is to prove out the inlet design and (ideally) the full closure AFAIK the record for hypersonic flight under thrust is the X51's 2013 flight of 210secs at > M5 (with a target of 300secs), and was expendable.

and switch over to rocket mode.  In principle this doesn't need a long flight at >M5.

The question is what sort of cruise duration could you pack into a vehicle with a 20 tonne thrust engine, given it will probably need to be able to take off from the ground (which alone would be a significant innovation for this sort of vehicle) as I don't think REL are planning to become an aircraft operator like Orbital with Stargazer.
Your 210 second duration spec. made me instantly think of the MAch 6+ X-15.  Do you happen to know how long the X-15s engines fired for?

On one hand, 300 seconds seems like a long time to burn an engine of this type.  Then I think of just how long the RS25/SSMEs had to burn for, approx. 501-513 seconds during nominal missions.

Its amazing what the propulsion systems of vehicles like these can do, in the environments that they must work in.
 
During the Abort To Orbit, 2 SSMEs had to fire for over 9 minutes 41 seconds or 581 seconds  during the ascent of STS-51F ATO.
Paul

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #119 on: 03/26/2018 06:29 PM »
Your 210 second duration spec. made me instantly think of the MAch 6+ X-15.  Do you happen to know how long the X-15s engines fired for?

On one hand, 300 seconds seems like a long time to burn an engine of this type.  Then I think of just how long the RS25/SSMEs had to burn for, approx. 501-513 seconds during nominal missions.

Its amazing what the propulsion systems of vehicles like these can do, in the environments that they must work in.
 
During the Abort To Orbit, 2 SSMEs had to fire for over 9 minutes 41 seconds or 581 seconds  during the ascent of STS-51F ATO.
Googling "how long did the engies for the X15 fire" gives this page

https://history.nasa.gov/SP-60/ch-4.html
Quote
Long before the first flight, X-15 pilots had become familiar with the demands for precise control, especially during the first 85 seconds - the powered phase, which establishes conditions for the entire flight
IIRC full X-15 flights ran 12-15 minutes.
« Last Edit: 03/26/2018 06:31 PM by john smith 19 »
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C Apply So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

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