Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SpX-7/CRS-7 DRAGON - Discussion Thread 1  (Read 783443 times)

Offline topsphere

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Not the best birthday present for Elon...

Online Robotbeat

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I want to send the SpaceX team a bouquet of flowers or a fruit basket or something. This is just awful.
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Offline Nilof

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Ah well, even the Delta II had its failures, and the only full failure was also after a large number of launches and completely unexpected... preceded by a partial failure earlier.
For a variable Isp spacecraft running at constant power and constant acceleration, the mass ratio is linear in delta-v.   Δv = ve0(MR-1). Or equivalently: Δv = vef PMF. Also, this is energy-optimal for a fixed delta-v and mass ratio.

Offline psloss

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It would've been nice if Dragon had abort thrusters.
Yes, and the other changes necessary...however, that doesn't save external payloads such as the one that was lost here.

Offline AJA

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That's the FTS at work. It's the events prior to that which are significant, IMO.


Do we have confirmation that they used the FTS?

Also (this really being a question for future launches, rather than this one) - can dragon also listen for an FTS signal, and - if it receives one - go into re-entry mode?

Offline Wonger

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At +1.13, two streaks of light appears up by the second stage, right after the odd noise that comes over the audio at +1.09.  Is this normal?

edit: changed video to audio
« Last Edit: 06/28/2015 02:57 PM by Wonger »

Offline hektor

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So, I suppose it's time for my own obligatory WAG: What if the mounting points on the IDA holding it inside the trunk failed, sending the thing slamming down into the upper stage at something like 4-5g? LOX tank ruptures and bursts from the sudden large hole in it, Dragon tumbles from the top down in a wreck, the rest of the LV fights to maintain stability for several seconds but can't possibly do so until it's put out of its misery by FTS.

Isn't the IDA the largest payload yet carried in Dragon's trunk? More stress than the mounting points have yet been put through?

The beauty of this scenario would be that there would be nothing wrong with F9 or even the Dragon capsule. Time will tell.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2015 02:58 PM by hektor »

Offline Rocket Science

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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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That's the FTS at work. It's the events prior to that which are significant, IMO.


Do we have confirmation that they used the FTS?

Yes; look up-thread and you'll see that NASA has confirmed the RSO sent the FTS command although no-one was sure if the charges fired before or after the vehicle broke up.

At +1.13, two streaks of light appears up by the second stage, right after the odd noise that comes over the audio at +1.09.  Is this normal?

edit: changed video to audio

I'm not putting any significance on the odd noises on the video; that was more than likely a microphone malfunction at the PAO's console as similar noises were heard long before launch.
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Offline t21jj

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So, I suppose it's time for my own obligatory WAG: What if the mounting points on the IDA holding it inside the trunk failed, sending the thing slamming down into the upper stage at something like 4-5g? LOX tank ruptures and bursts from the sudden large hole in it, Dragon tumbles from the top down in a wreck, the rest of the LV fights to maintain stability for several seconds but can't possibly do so until it's put out of its misery by FTS.

Isn't the IDA the largest payload yet carried in Dragon's trunk? More stress than the mounting points have yet been put through?

That's what I was wondering could the ida have come loose.

Online meekGee

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So, I suppose it's time for my own obligatory WAG: What if the mounting points on the IDA holding it inside the trunk failed, sending the thing slamming down into the upper stage at something like 4-5g? LOX tank ruptures and bursts from the sudden large hole in it, Dragon tumbles from the top down in a wreck, the rest of the LV fights to maintain stability for several seconds but can't possibly do so until it's put out of its misery by FTS.

Isn't the IDA the largest payload yet carried in Dragon's trunk? More stress than the mounting points have yet been put through?

The beauty of this scenario would be that there would be nothing wrong with F9 or even the Dragon capsule. Time will tell.

It would also disintegrate the trunk early, releasing Dragon.

That would be the better of the possible scenarios.
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Offline gregzsidisin

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This leaves ISS short of resupply options...
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Offline NovaSilisko

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So, I suppose it's time for my own obligatory WAG: What if the mounting points on the IDA holding it inside the trunk failed, sending the thing slamming down into the upper stage at something like 4-5g? LOX tank ruptures and bursts from the sudden large hole in it, Dragon tumbles from the top down in a wreck, the rest of the LV fights to maintain stability for several seconds but can't possibly do so until it's put out of its misery by FTS.

Isn't the IDA the largest payload yet carried in Dragon's trunk? More stress than the mounting points have yet been put through?

The beauty of this scenario would be that there would be nothing wrong with F9 or even the Dragon capsule. Time will tell.

Well, it would be a problem with Dragon in such a case, the bolts picked to secure IDA inside would've been too weak. Unless the actual mounting brackets on the IDA were bad. But we shouldn't lay blame around for such a spur-of-the-moment idea, we'll have to see what the investigation brings.

The only thing I really have to base the idea on though is, 1. the failure looks like it came from the second stage LOX tank and 2. the IDA is (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) the heaviest piece of trunk-carried cargo so far.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2015 03:01 PM by NovaSilisko »

Online DaveS

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At +1.13, two streaks of light appears up by the second stage, right after the odd noise that comes over the audio at +1.09.  Is this normal?

edit: changed video to audio
The microphones are at the pad, ground level so no association to the sounds. Also the Falcon was some 44 km in altitude where's there's not much air to transport the sound waves.
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Offline craigcocca

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Looks as if they had data well into the breakup. You can see acceleration drop off from T+2:20 to T+2:23 in the livestream.

Frame by frame, the anomaly definitely looks like it started at the second stage.
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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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This leaves ISS short of resupply options...

Which is one of the reasons I'm getting sweaty palms over this.
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Offline MATTBLAK

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At one point when the major R.U.D. was happening, I thought with a flash 'Is that the Dragon aborting away from the launcher?!"

So, definitely no on that scenario?
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Offline Aussie_Space_Nut

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Lets not be too down hearted. We know that SpaceX are improving all the time and I'm sure they will continue to do so. The nay sayers will come out loud and strong but that is always the case. SpaceX, given the now much needed supplies to the station, may, I hope, pull off a quick turnaround and get another dragon up in record time. That would be the best way to silence (or at least quieten) the critics. SpaceX are in this for the long haul and a shock like this can be just the thing to help the team focus that much harder on their work. I was only reading the other day that SpaceX play the videos of their earlier Falcon 1 failures to new employees to help them to understand that the stakes are high. Familiarity breeds contempt they say well hopefully this will help them to improve. Cant wait for the next attempt, Go SpaceX!

Offline MattMason

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So, I suppose it's time for my own obligatory WAG: What if the mounting points on the IDA holding it inside the trunk failed, sending the thing slamming down into the upper stage at something like 4-5g? LOX tank ruptures and bursts from the sudden large hole in it, Dragon tumbles from the top down in a wreck, the rest of the LV fights to maintain stability for several seconds but can't possibly do so until it's put out of its misery by FTS.

Isn't the IDA the largest payload yet carried in Dragon's trunk? More stress than the mounting points have yet been put through?

The beauty of this scenario would be that there would be nothing wrong with F9 or even the Dragon capsule. Time will tell.

If that scenario plays out, telemetry will show a quick drop of LOX pressure in the second stage. A very reasonable hypothesis. This also explains why the Falcon would dip in trajectory and for Dragon to pop.

It could also be a structural failure. There were issues with mating the Dragon to the second stage. It's possible that the Dragon itself popped, vented the 2nd stage and aerodynamic shear did the rest.
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Offline Norm Hartnett

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Is this the Dragon?

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