Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SpX-7/CRS-7 DRAGON - Discussion Thread 1  (Read 672293 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

Discussion Thread 2 for the Falcon 9 v1.1 mission with the CRS-7 Dragon, now in post-failure discussion.

Resources:

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/

SpaceX Dragon Articles:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/dragon/

=--=

Articles for CRS-7:

Static Fire:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/06/spacex-static-fire-falcon-9-crs7-mission/

Launch and Failure:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/06/falcon-9-crs-7-dragon-commute-orbit/

Post Failure Status:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/07/spacex-working-falcon-9-diagnosis-treatment/

=--=

SpaceX GENERAL Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions NOT specific to this mission.

SpaceX MISSIONS Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0 - this section is for everything specific to SpaceX missions.

Other threads for CRS-7:
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SpX-7/CRS-7 DRAGON FAILURE - Discussion Thread 2
CRS-7 UPDATES thread (UPDATES only, discussion belongs here)
The CRS-7 Don't be Mean, IDA will put a ring on it - Party Thread
Send your best wishes to SpaceX thread

L2 SpaceX Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24469.0

Offline UberNobody

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Third time's the charm, right?  ;)

Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2015 08:19 PM by UberNobody »

Offline Kabloona

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Third time's the charm, right?  ;)

Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.

Just before CRS-6, SpaceX tweeted an aerial photo of the barge on station, presumably taken from a hexacopter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SpaceX/status/587430225572601859
« Last Edit: 05/03/2015 09:17 PM by Kabloona »

Offline kch

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Third time's the charm, right?  ;)

Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.

It might get just a tad warm if it stayed there during the landing!  "Mmmmm ... flame-broiled hexacopter ... yum!"  ;D

Offline corrodedNut

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Third time's the charm, right?  ;)

Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.

Just before CRS-6, SpaceX tweeted an aerial photo of the barge on station, presumably taken from a hexacopter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SpaceX/status/587430225572601859

That's a lot of presuming. But drones are cool so that's probably what happened....right?

Offline georgegassaway

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Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.

The technology exists to do this....created by R/C  hobbyists. I have expected SpaceX would use one (or more) multicopters to get airborne video of a landing.  For all we know, they may have done it for CRS-6 but didn't release it due to the crash.

They could have one or more multicopters on the deck of the ASDS barge (I call it "Mister Bill" now, see:  http://i.imgur.com/7nXJmFG.jpg). 

Turned on, perhaps by a timer or the last crew person onboard. I do not know when there may be any crew on board for the last time before a landing attempt but there may be some aboard who prepare the GoPros and other stuff some time before needing to leave.  In any case, whatever the logistics, not rocket science to be able to have the multicopter(s) powered up  and on standby waiting to automatically take off at say 3 minutes before the F9R booster's planned landing time. 

There is "Ardupilot" Open Source software, which includes Mission Planner  which allows for Multicopters (and R/C planes and cars) to navigate entirely autonomously.  Waypoints can be set up so that a copter can take off, fly say 200 meters north of where it took off from, maintain an altitude of say 100 meters, and rotate itself to point a camera south to look at the barge.  And just sit there loitering at that spot for minutes, recording video of whatever happens (even the potential to send live video back to a support ship or aircraft).

After say one minute after the F9R should have landed, then the Multicopter could come back closer to the barge, and then do a slow "orbit" around the barge (at say a 50 meter radius and 30 meter altitude), facing the center of the barge at all times, hopefully showing the landed booster safely on deck, then land on the barge. Just where to land on the barge….near the bow or stern.  If they could squeeze in any in-flight command to the copter, tell it which end of the barge to land on, if F9R lands closer to one end rather than close to the center "X" (The Ardupilot "Mission Planner", does allow for mid-flight updates).   I have seen multicopters do automated landings, and, well, they usually land within 1-2 meters (I realize of course that JRTI, I mean Mister Bill, may add an extra 3 meters to the landing error. Though perhaps upgrades may improve station-keeping accuracy even better than the originally stated 3 meter margin of error).

Such video would be a "million dollar money shot". I think well worth the trouble for SpaceX to do it, and of course they have made good use of multicopters in the past. So, while I won't say I'll be disappointed if they do not do it…. I will not be surprised if such video is released after the first successful landing.

Below, link to Mission Planner info on setting up autonomous flights and an image of a simple example screenshot on that link.  For a SpaceX landing, "Home" would be the ASDS where the copter would take off from. #2 would be a waypoint that would be used for loitering for some fixed duration to video the  landing. #3 would be moved to be over the ASDS, to fly in a desired radius for one circle, then RTL to land at Home as in #4 (see list of commands at bottom).

http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/common-planning-a-mission-with-waypoints-and-events/
« Last Edit: 05/04/2015 08:32 PM by georgegassaway »

Offline Kabloona

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Third time's the charm, right?  ;)

Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.

Just before CRS-6, SpaceX tweeted an aerial photo of the barge on station, presumably taken from a hexacopter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SpaceX/status/587430225572601859

That's a lot of presuming. But drones are cool so that's probably what happened....right?

No, it probably happened that way not because drones are cool, but because SpaceX has used them extensively to video Grasshopper test flights and to photgraph the barge from the air in the past.

The only other alternative is that SpaceX sent an airplane or a helicopter 200 miles out to take an aerial photo of the barge on station, which would be much more expensive than simply launching a hexacopter from GO Quest.

Offline corrodedNut

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Third time's the charm, right?  ;)

Is there any way to fly the hexacopter over the barge drone ship?  I doubt it, but it would be really cool if they could pull it off.

Just before CRS-6, SpaceX tweeted an aerial photo of the barge on station, presumably taken from a hexacopter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SpaceX/status/587430225572601859

That's a lot of presuming. But drones are cool so that's probably what happened....right?

No, it probably happened that way not because drones are cool, but because SpaceX has used them extensively to video Grasshopper test flights and to photgraph the barge from the air in the past.

The only other alternative is that SpaceX sent an airplane or a helicopter 200 miles out to take an aerial photo of the barge on station, which would be much more expensive than simply launching a hexacopter from GO Quest.

But that's exactly what they did to record the landing attempt. The open ocean is not same as McGregor. It's not a matter of expense, it's a matter of opportunity. Do you really think the spotter aircraft would attempt to film the landing without a practice run?

Offline Kabloona

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Do you really think the spotter aircraft would attempt to film the landing without a practice run?

Yes, I do. Practicing what? Pressing the "record" button on the camera and pointing it out the window?

And how is taking a still photo from right overhead the barge practice for taking video of the rocket descending from a mile away? They're two completely different exercises.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2015 03:58 PM by Kabloona »

Offline cscott

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Also: the spotter aircraft has already has practice on previous crs flights.

Offline cuddihy

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Anyone heard if the Progress failure is going to affect CRS-7 schedule yet?

Online Robotbeat

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Is this really the next flight that SpaceX is doing? It seems so far away after the breakneck cadence they've had so far in 2015!

EDIT:Has this Falcon 9 been test-fired in McGregor, yet?
« Last Edit: 05/06/2015 07:09 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline Moe Grills

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Anyone heard if the Progress failure is going to affect CRS-7 schedule yet?

IMHO, it probably won't effect the scheduling much, but the cargo manifest may undergo a change: more victuals and necessities (like oxygen, water, food, CO2 scrubbers, changes of clothing, etc) may be added to compensate for the loss of that Progress; Fewer scientific materials and other non-necessities may go up.

Offline yokem55

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I don't think this date can stay the 19th.  There will 1 USOS crew member to capture the Dragon and I'm not sure that is allowed by flight rules. The Cosmonauts likely have little to no training on rendezvous or capture operations There will also only be Scott to do all the internal steps to open the Dragon, unload it, and carry out all the experiments launched.  Getting Cosmonaut help for USOS tasks takes coordination and history shows that assistance is rare.  Installation of the IDA will also have to the await arrival of Kjell.
The above was posted in the Expedition 43 thread in the ISS forum. If this is correct, the whole visiting vehicle schedule for the rest of the year will have to be completely tossed. If the next Soyuz launch doesn't bring up the next group until late July, we probably won't see CRS-7 go up until early August. Which then means the HTV, CRS-8, and Orbital CRS-4 will all be seriously delayed.

Offline sanman

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Shotwell had been quoted as saying they'd like to land on land the next time. Is there any indication that they'll be given a chance to do that for this CRS-7 mission?

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/space/2015/04/15/spacex-ground-attempt-reusable-landing-sea/25827625/

Quote
SpaceX hopes that the next attempt to land its Falcon 9 reusable launch vehicle will occur on solid ground.

While not providing details of when or where that attempt would occur, Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX President and COO, told Defense News on Wednesday that the company hopes its next attempted landing will take place on land, not at sea.

Offline Joffan

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I don't think this date can stay the 19th.  There will 1 USOS crew member to capture the Dragon and I'm not sure that is allowed by flight rules. The Cosmonauts likely have little to no training on rendezvous or capture operations There will also only be Scott to do all the internal steps to open the Dragon, unload it, and carry out all the experiments launched.  Getting Cosmonaut help for USOS tasks takes coordination and history shows that assistance is rare.  Installation of the IDA will also have to the await arrival of Kjell.
The above was posted in the Expedition 43 thread in the ISS forum. If this is correct, the whole visiting vehicle schedule for the rest of the year will have to be completely tossed. If the next Soyuz launch doesn't bring up the next group until late July, we probably won't see CRS-7 go up until early August. Which then means the HTV, CRS-8, and Orbital CRS-4 will all be seriously delayed.

Any chance that SpaceX can accelerate CRS-7, to catch Virts and Cristoforetti? Unlikely I know...
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Offline Kabloona

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Shotwell had been quoted as saying they'd like to land on land the next time. Is there any indication that they'll be given a chance to do that for this CRS-7 ?

Not that we've heard down here on L1, but maybe L2 has something. It sounds rather like wishful thinking to me, but maybe something is going on behind the scenes with the range that we don't know about. It would also require LC-13 to be ready, and we haven't had any recent status reports on construction progress there.
« Last Edit: 05/13/2015 03:23 AM by Kabloona »

Offline zubenelgenubi

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I don't think this date can stay the 19th.  There will 1 USOS crew member to capture the Dragon and I'm not sure that is allowed by flight rules. The Cosmonauts likely have little to no training on rendezvous or capture operations There will also only be Scott to do all the internal steps to open the Dragon, unload it, and carry out all the experiments launched.  Getting Cosmonaut help for USOS tasks takes coordination and history shows that assistance is rare.  Installation of the IDA will also have to the await arrival of Kjell.
The above was posted in the Expedition 43 thread in the ISS forum. If this is correct, the whole visiting vehicle schedule for the rest of the year will have to be completely tossed. If the next Soyuz launch doesn't bring up the next group until late July, we probably won't see CRS-7 go up until early August. Which then means the HTV, CRS-8, and Orbital CRS-4 will all be seriously delayed.

Any chance that SpaceX can accelerate CRS-7, to catch Virts and Cristoforetti? Unlikely I know...

I've elaborated on this question in the ISS/Expedition 43 thread...let's see if any of our forum gurus can answer!
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36315.msg1373435#msg1373435
« Last Edit: 05/13/2015 03:24 AM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline NX-0

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The Russians had planned to launch the Soyuz TMA-17M ferry ship on May 26 to carry spacecraft commander Oleg Kononenko, Japanese astronaut Kimiya Yui and NASA astronaut Kjell Lindgren to the lab complex to boost the crew back to six. That flight now is on hold until late July.

In the meantime, the Russians hope to accelerate processing of another Progress supply ship, moving launch of the M-28M/60P resupply spacecraft from Aug. 6 to early July. A U.S. resupply mission managed by SpaceX remains targeted for June 19, but sources say that flight could slip a week or so due to unrelated issues.

 http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/05/12/russia-delays-iss-crew-rotation-flights/

Offline MattMason

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Shotwell had been quoted as saying they'd like to land on land the next time. Is there any indication that they'll be given a chance to do that for this CRS-7 ?

Not that we've heard down here on L1, but maybe L2 has something. It sounds rather like wishful thinking to me, but maybe something is going on behind the scenes with the range that we don't know about. It would also require LC-13 to be ready, and we haven't had any recent status reports on construction progress there.

If you're in L2, Kabloona, you might want to check there for some information.

I would not think that a land-based option is possible until at least CRS-8, and that's pushing approvals, launch schedules and readied facilities.
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