Author Topic: ESA leading us back to the Moon  (Read 70900 times)

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: ESA leading us back to the Moon
« Reply #180 on: 03/06/2018 07:22 PM »
The plan is now the Moon Village, a robotic infrastructure build-up, not an ESA human lunar lander as the older posts seemed to suggest.  There are follow-on plans along the lines of the Global Exploration Roadmap, including a sequence of human landings.  All this is being openly discussed and ideas developed, but people are still trying to figure out how to plan this as an international and part-commercial endeavour, probably around the Gateway or other lunar orbit infrastructure.  Don't look for hard plans yet, NASA's direction is still very uncertain and they are at the core of any international program.  But that doesn't mean nothing is happening or that nothing will happen. 

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: ESA leading us back to the Moon
« Reply #181 on: 03/06/2018 10:52 PM »
NASA want to start with robotic exploration missions using existing small commercial landers. This may build to robotic base for ISRU using larger cargo landers. The flight history from these landers can help with design of human lander. Maybe simple as adding cabin to flight proven cargo lander.

 This step by step approach should result in lower cost system. If ISRU works out then straight off crew lander only needs half DV if refuelling on surfacing.



Offline woods170

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Re: ESA leading us back to the Moon
« Reply #182 on: 03/07/2018 07:09 AM »
It's been 3 years since this thread started.  Three years closer to shutting down aging ISS. Is there any even Powerpoint ESA plan for a lunar lander, etc.?

This.

This is exactly why I commented several years ago that ESA is NOT going to lead us back to the Moon. ESA doesn't lead in such HSF efforts. They tag along with others.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 07:09 AM by woods170 »

Offline woods170

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Re: ESA leading us back to the Moon
« Reply #183 on: 03/07/2018 12:01 PM »
ESA, NASA, JAXA and Canda have been quietly working on lunar surface exploration architecture and here it is. Not funded, but without a detailed plan and cost estimate they can't ask governments for funding.

http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Whitley-Landgraf_9-20-17/

Here is brief summary.
2 x 2 man rovers on single lander (crew descent stage?). Nuclear and solar powered, designed for 42day missions. Left on surface with life of 5+ missions over few years.
1 x 4man lander. 2 stage, expendable methane descent stage, reusable ascent stage which uses storeable fuel. Typical flight 0.5days but can support crew for 3-4.

In emergency a rover can support 4 till they get back to lander.

Initial mission is 3 x SLS, 1x rovers, 1x crew lander 1 x Orion and crew.
Follow on missions are 1.5 SLS not very well explained but new descent stage, fuel for ascent stage plus surplus.

Allow for commercial partners especially cargo and fuel to DSG plus cargo landers.

Canada + ESA for rover development. ESA ascent stage, JAXA descent stage. NASA would most likely provide some help but lion share of development costs will be on 3 international partners.

I think it is good plan, with large chunk be reusable. Bang for bucks it is very good considering each mission results in 168 man days on surface. Still comes down to funding ($20B) which ESA may struggle with given their large input.

The brilliance behind this approach is that it build payloads for SLS.

Belated reply.

You are wrong IMO. It is the reason why it will fail.

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