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#40 by Stan Black on 23 Mar, 2015 21:19
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So LNG and Atlas is Galaxy Express?
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#41 by Lobo on 23 Mar, 2015 21:42
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There are no plans for a three core heavy version. NGLS performance will exceed that of DIV Heavy using a single core plus a few solids...
For some reason I too had thought that the NGLV would have a 3-core version.
So you are saying that the NGLV will pretty much look like an Atlas V 551, which is a single core with SRM's added. Do we know this for sure, or is it speculation? Just curious.
No confirmation. Think its inferred from the need to compete low cost high frequency. Experience with DIVH has been said to be that integration of such clustered core vehicles is slow and costly, although DIV's hydrolox characteristics may have a significant addition to this.
Many are watching other clustered vehicles like Angara 3-5 and FH to see if this pattern follows.
Atlas V Heavy never happened, so a new launch table would likely be required for a three barrel, and significant changes to the VIF. If one was going to fly while upgrading, and if you needed to raise launch frequency, it may be that a new VIF and a separate pad might make sense.
The advantage of not going to a multicore here is that minor modifications to existing pad/VIF for a new LV could be concurrent with operating AV. This would fit likely ULA needs to conserve current operations while bringing on a new vehicle. That and cutting DIV-M.
Yea, I think as space enthusiasts, we tend to want to ask "what if?" or "what -could- be?" rather than, "what's needed?"
That's probably what drives Jim nuts on a lot of these threads. ;-)
The question is, if you could make a new EELV, what performance points would you design it for?
With the original EELV, the base slick stick's were basically a step up from the medium ELV's of the the mid 1990's, Delta II and Atlas II. Withe thir tri-core heavy version being a step up from the Titan IV HLV.
But today, we have over a decade of launch history so we know better what the government's most common needs are and the commercial sector's needs.
The tri-core heavy is needed so seldom the never developed the Atlas version of it. D4H was seldom needed as it was. It's only been launched 8 times (1 was just a demo launch) in it's history.
In fact, the 3-5 SRB version of Atlas and 4 SRB version of D4M+ were only needed 12 and 4 times respectively in the history of the EELV program.
The slick core versions, or 1 or 2 SRB versions make up the remander of the 81 total EELV launches.
So 57 of 81 payloads have been 2 SRB or less, and only 7 of 81 payloads have needed an actual tri-core heavy.
The 2 SRB version of Atlas and Delta hit around that 6.5mt to GTO (1800m/s) performance point. It looks like FHR will be right around there too.
So, if it were me, I'd make my basic LV right about that, with option to add SRB's to cover those 4-5 SRB Atlas and D4M class payloads, as well as the rare D4H payload. The basic slick LV would be my bread and butter money maker. Adding SRB's won't be any big thing as the pad ops will be pretty much the same of 1 SRB or 6. That will cover most government payloads and all commercial payloads with that basic config.
I'm sure the core could support a tri-core heavy if NASA or USAF ever needed one and would be willing to pay for it, as well as the pad modificaitons. So it'd be a nice upgrade to have in your back pocket, but you wouldn't be planning your base LV around it.
IF that's what ULA is doing, I can definately see the logic in it. -
#42 by Kabloona on 23 Mar, 2015 21:54
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I'll step out on a limb and make the suggestion that perhaps these names sound more like groupthink from out of touch board of directors attempting to compete with who they think is a master showman.
If ULA's board can't do better than those names, ULA is in more trouble than I thought. -
#43 by Darkseraph on 23 Mar, 2015 22:06
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Well I am sad that Demeter, Nostromo, Sulaco, Auriga were not options.
But actually I like GalaxyOne...if they had just called it like Galaxy, instead of the one part (is that meant to be Galaxy I ? ). Even if ULA does bring out the Galaxy One, Apple will bring out the iRocket 7 next December, innovating innovation and so on.
I did vote GalaxyOne in all seriousness, because the other names were a bit uninspired. Eagle and Freedom..like those were for two space projects of the past already. It doesn't sounds forward thinking. And I don't want to sound anti-patriotic, but why not just emblazen 'MURRICA on the side of the rocket with a crucifix on the top?
Galaxy sounds like something that is going out there, towards the Galaxy!
Has Andromeda been used for a rocket or spacecraft name yet? or Hyperion? -
#44 by Lobo on 23 Mar, 2015 22:09
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The XCOR upper stage engine is probably going to be pretty fantastic, given what's been released about it, and it will be tailored exactly to ULA's needs.
I've not heard about this engine. Do you have a link to some info on it? -
#45 by Lobo on 23 Mar, 2015 22:16
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New rocket, Eagle, Freedom or GalaxyOne will provide over 70% of the Nation’s Launches Supporting our Military, NASA and Scientific Exploration
Ugghh...
I like Atlas 6, Titan 5, or Delta 5 much better than either of them. Even pick another Greek letter to follow Delta. Alpha, Omega, or something of the sort.
(Although I get Ed's comments about Greeks never having launched rockets is a good one. The problem is, what American iconography do you go with in it's place? The "Von Braun"? Just doesn't have that same ring to it.)
Although Eagle would be ok. Good heritate there with the first LM on the Moon, and it's our national sympol. I'll pick that out of the 3. -
#46 by edkyle99 on 23 Mar, 2015 22:22
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For all we know, ULA's Eagle suggestion is also named after a spaceship, a real one.Done. Uninspired names worthy of ridicule.
If you are laughing at "Eagle", do you also find "Falcon" funny? They're both raptors.
- Ed Kyle
Falcon is named for Han Solo's Millennium Falcon, not the bird.
- Ed Kyle
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#47 by Lobo on 23 Mar, 2015 22:27
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Done. Uninspired names worthy of ridicule.
If you are laughing at "Eagle", do you also find "Falcon" funny? They're both raptors.
- Ed Kyle
I think it's just overall the quality of the list.
I think most will agree Eagle is ok, if a bit bland. Good heritage with Neil and Buzz's LM and the symbol of the country. It in itself isn't what makes the list sound silly. It on a better list of 3 I think wouldn't garner any negative comments.
For example:
1) Titan V
2) Nova
3) Eagle
I think such a list would garner more positive responses, Eagle could even win.
GalaxyOne makes me think of the movie "Galaxy Quest"", and just sounds cartoonish. "Galaxy" by itself would be better.
Freedom is fine and all, in theory. Who doesn't like Freedom? Like Eagle, but even more passe. It's just sort of over used and a bit of a safe cop out. I think people thought the "Liberty LV" by ATK was in the same vein. It's going to make me think of "Freedom Fries". ;-)
Just MHO though, not to be confused with anything credible. :-)
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#48 by Jim on 23 Mar, 2015 22:30
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If ULA's board can't do better than those names, ULA is in more trouble than I thought.
the board didn't chose them, supposedly they were the top choices of the employees. -
#49 by kevin-rf on 23 Mar, 2015 22:31
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The Greek did have a "fire" weapon, but by all accounts it was more like a flame thrower. Icarus would be a very cool name
It can't be any worse than where I work, we throw a jumble of random letters and numbers after the word auto. Meanwhile our competition has such cool names as countess, tally, luna, and so on.... -
#50 by Lobo on 23 Mar, 2015 22:37
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Done. Uninspired names worthy of ridicule.
If you are laughing at "Eagle", do you also find "Falcon" funny? They're both raptors.
- Ed Kyle
Falcon is named for Han Solo's Millennium Falcon, not the bird.
And what was Han's ship named after?
Or is a "Falcon" some other type of animal in a galaxy far, far away than a large bird?
;-)
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#51 by Lobo on 23 Mar, 2015 22:42
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The Greek did have a "fire" weapon, but by all accounts it was more like a flame thrower. Icarus would be a very cool name
Artemis.
Famous mythological archer. not a fire weapon, but the archer launching arrows into space visualization is there.
And it's an easy name to say and rolls off the tounge nice, unlike some Greek names like Themistocles and Asclepius. -
#52 by Helodriver on 23 Mar, 2015 23:02
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My top 6, not including numbered derivatives of Titan, Atlas or Delta (any of which I'd gladly support over the current list)
Argo (or Argus)
Securitas
Neptune
Hyperion
Helios
Aethon
Not that its going to be named any of those.
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#53 by vapour_nudge on 23 Mar, 2015 23:07
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Freedom was the proposed name of Regan's space station pre Russian involvement. Don't like it
Eagle? Come on USA can't you think of something else?
GalaxyOne? Galaxy quest. Oh Please
From a geeky point of view. Delta V is a double meaning which is cool
But why not reuse Titan? Speaks of power and might. Or Titania which could launch payloads to Uranus
Or "mighty Thor" :-)
Or go the Microsoft route and call it Rocket 2019?
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#54 by QuantumG on 23 Mar, 2015 23:11
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Just call it Steve and move on.
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#55 by Rocket Science on 23 Mar, 2015 23:20
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#56 by watermod on 24 Mar, 2015 01:54
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Since most of their launches are for folk who desire to see all. Odin or his spear would be appropriate. Since the spear's name is of questionable pronunciation in English (Gungnir) skip the spear. Or name it after the native American god Coyote!
http://www.native-languages.org/legends-coyote.htm -
#57 by amp on 24 Mar, 2015 01:57
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ULA employee here. We were given no insight into the names submitted by other employees or what names were "popular". When we received the e-mail this morning announcing the Top 3, we had the same reactions as most in this forum. Now I'll come clean and say I was one of the employees who submitted the name Eagle, because despite it being somewhat mundane, it seemed to fit and has potential. However, I wish it would have been presented alongside two other strong names (...not Freedom). I am absolutely bewildered by GalaxyOne as it is such an obvious rip-off and doesn't make a lot of sense. So there you go... please vote Eagle.
(For what it's worth, I also submitted the names Artemis and Defiant. I would love Atlas VI but leadership has made it clear that they do not want to retain a heritage name.) -
#58 by M_Puckett on 24 Mar, 2015 02:04
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Since most of their launches are for folk who desire to see all. Odin or his spear would be appropriate. Since the spear's name is of questionable pronunciation in English (Gungnir) skip the spear. Or name it after the native American god Coyote!
http://www.native-languages.org/legends-coyote.htm
Mjolinir would be cool.
The Hammer of the Gods will drive our ships to new lands. -
#59 by Coastal Ron on 24 Mar, 2015 02:06
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Now I'll come clean and say I was one of the employees who submitted the name Eagle, because despite it being somewhat mundane, it seemed to fit and has potential.
Of the three it is definitely the best. Overall it may not be the most unique, and it might cause confusion with the Apollo Eagle vehicle, but I thought it was worthy of consideration.Quote(For what it's worth, I also submitted the names Artemis and Defiant. I would love Atlas VI but leadership has made it clear that they do not want to retain a heritage name.)
Artemis and Defiant may not be the strongest contenders either, but worthy of consideration. To me Freedom and GalaxyOne were, to put it nicely, not worthy of consideration.
I could make a strong argument for Atlas VI though.
Oh, and welcome to NSF!
Galaxy sounds like something that is going out there, towards the Galaxy!
