Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 / Dragon 2 : SpX-DM1 : NET March 2, 2019 : DISCUSSION  (Read 253696 times)

Offline Comga

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True... If they're going with a 2-day rendezvous then the latest launch date before the high beta angle period would then be on February 10th (just one day after the supposedly current launch date with docking on February 12th). The earliest launch date after the beta angle period would then be February 18th (with docking on the 20th).

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the first Dragon 1 flight to the ISS (COTS-2/3?) include practicing autonomously aborting and retreating?  If these are included, and it seems highly likely, NASA will have to go through some sort of formal approval before they can be used on terminal guidance.  Heaven only knows what other test they will conduct and need the results of to get approved before actually going in to dock.  Since it could take them two days to catch up to the ISS given a launch not specifically set up for quick rendezvous, it hardly seems like a two day approach.  And I can't imagine them going into this with a backup day a week away.
That would hint at a NET Feb 17 launch.

"Musk Time" on steroids!
(Appropriate as NASA is the only organization that still thinks "on steroids" is a good thing. ;) )
I wish I had kept track of all the prospective launch dates.

This would be a GREAT time to see one of those FPIPs to see what else is going on at the ISS.

Edit:  The Dragon for COTS-2+ was captured on Flight Day 4.
« Last Edit: 01/14/2019 07:44 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online Alexphysics

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True... If they're going with a 2-day rendezvous then the latest launch date before the high beta angle period would then be on February 10th (just one day after the supposedly current launch date with docking on February 12th). The earliest launch date after the beta angle period would then be February 18th (with docking on the 20th).

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the first Dragon 1 flight to the ISS (COTS-2/3?) include practicing autonomously aborting and retreating?  If these are included, and it seems highly likely, NASA will have to go through some sort of formal approval before they can be used on terminal guidance.  Heaven only knows what other test they will conduct and need the results of to get approved before actually going in to dock.  Since it could take them two days to catch up to the ISS given a launch not specifically set up for quick rendezvous, it hardly seems like a two day approach.  And I can't imagine them going into this with a backup day a week away.
That would hint at a NET Feb 17 launch.

"Musk Time" on steroids!
(Appropriate as NASA is the only organization that still thinks "on steroids" is a good thing. ;) )
I wish I had kept track of all the prospective launch dates.

This would be a GREAT time to see one of those FPIPs to see what else is going on at the ISS.

Edit:  The Dragon for COTS-2+ was captured on Flight Day 4.

I don't think they're going to go that way of retreating and then docking the next day. I think they'll just make the rendezvous and docking procedure more lengthy to test everything step by step so everything is checked out for DM-2. While a normal docking may last about 30min like Soyuz, I could see this first one going on for more than an hour but not something like for COTS 2+ where they went back and then captured it on the next day.

Online envy887

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True... If they're going with a 2-day rendezvous then the latest launch date before the high beta angle period would then be on February 10th (just one day after the supposedly current launch date with docking on February 12th). The earliest launch date after the beta angle period would then be February 18th (with docking on the 20th).

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the first Dragon 1 flight to the ISS (COTS-2/3?) include practicing autonomously aborting and retreating?  If these are included, and it seems highly likely, NASA will have to go through some sort of formal approval before they can be used on terminal guidance.  Heaven only knows what other test they will conduct and need the results of to get approved before actually going in to dock.  Since it could take them two days to catch up to the ISS given a launch not specifically set up for quick rendezvous, it hardly seems like a two day approach.  And I can't imagine them going into this with a backup day a week away.
That would hint at a NET Feb 17 launch.

"Musk Time" on steroids!
(Appropriate as NASA is the only organization that still thinks "on steroids" is a good thing. ;) )
I wish I had kept track of all the prospective launch dates.

This would be a GREAT time to see one of those FPIPs to see what else is going on at the ISS.

Edit:  The Dragon for COTS-2+ was captured on Flight Day 4.

Doesn't Crew Dragon have a lot of extra propellant for orbital maneuvering? Why can't they use that for faster phasing even if they can't pick a day with a good phasing alignment?

Offline mlindner

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New verge article and video with lots of good camera angles of the SpaceX crew simulator along with astronaut interviews. https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/15/18182243/spacex-nasa-astronauts-human-crew-commercial-space-iss-tourism-bob-behnken-doug-hurley
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 02:47 pm by mlindner »
Internal combustion engine in space. It's just a Bad Idea.TM - Robotbeat

Offline mn

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New verge article and video with lots of good camera angles of the SpaceX crew simulator along with astronaut interviews. https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/15/18182243/spacex-nasa-astronauts-human-crew-commercial-space-iss-tourism-bob-behnken-doug-hurley

Quote from article

Quote
NASA spokesperson Bob Jacobs confirmed to The Verge that the ďannouncement about the move into February and the government furlough were unrelated.Ē

Offline woods170

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New verge article and video with lots of good camera angles of the SpaceX crew simulator along with astronaut interviews. https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/15/18182243/spacex-nasa-astronauts-human-crew-commercial-space-iss-tourism-bob-behnken-doug-hurley

Quote from article

Quote
NASA spokesperson Bob Jacobs confirmed to The Verge that the ďannouncement about the move into February and the government furlough were unrelated.Ē

That is in direct contradiction with things I'm hearing from both SpaceX and NASA sources. So, I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

Online scr00chy

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That is in direct contradiction with things I'm hearing from both SpaceX and NASA sources. So, I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

What about this? https://twitter.com/KarenSBernstein/status/1082311710671847424

Quote
I work for NASA on the Commercial Crew Program. We are working at normal staffing levels because the launch schedule for SpaceX and Boeing is critical to NASAís mission. I do not yet have a sense of my teamís motivation to work without pay.


Offline woods170

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That is in direct contradiction with things I'm hearing from both SpaceX and NASA sources. So, I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

What about this? https://twitter.com/KarenSBernstein/status/1082311710671847424

Quote
I work for NASA on the Commercial Crew Program. We are working at normal staffing levels because the launch schedule for SpaceX and Boeing is critical to NASAís mission. I do not yet have a sense of my teamís motivation to work without pay.



Fits the picture.
There are also non-NASA, non-SpaceX, non-Boeing contractors involved with the CCP which are currently not doing anything, due to the government shut-down. One of those is the Aerospace Corporation, which is involved in certification efforts for CCP.
NASA-side of CCP may be up-and-running (without pay that is) but several other aspects of CCP are currently flat on their backs.
DON'T expect that to NOT have impact on schedule.

Offline Comga

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https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1085604474419380224

At the risk of appearing thick to the more knowledgeable people here, would someone please explain this?
How is it "fortuitous"?
What "aspect of CCtCap contract" is advantageous?
Does that mean that SpaceX doesn't need a license from FAA for the DM-1 flight?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline IntoTheVoid

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https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1085604474419380224

At the risk of appearing thick to the more knowledgeable people here, would someone please explain this?
How is it "fortuitous"?
What "aspect of CCtCap contract" is advantageous?
Does that mean that SpaceX doesn't need a license from FAA for the DM-1 flight?

Yes, Irene's claim is that DM-1 and DM-2, and presumably, by extension the In-Flight Abort, do not need FAA launch licenses, being viewed as NASA launches, like TESS was. Jeff's explanation is that this may be because CCtCap is a NASA contract, as opposed to the COTS test flights, which were performed under a Space Act Agreement. This not needing an FAA license is fortuitous because the FAA is not issuing new or modified launch licenses during the gov't shutdown, and therefore the FAA closure will not hold up these tests. (Without saying what other issues may hold them up)

Offline joek

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At the risk of appearing thick to the more knowledgeable people here, would someone please explain this?
How is it "fortuitous"?
What "aspect of CCtCap contract" is advantageous?
Does that mean that SpaceX doesn't need a license from FAA for the DM-1 flight?
Yes, Irene's claim is that DM-1 and DM-2, and presumably, by extension the In-Flight Abort, do not need FAA launch licenses, being viewed as NASA launches, like TESS was. Jeff's explanation is that this may be because CCtCap is a NASA contract, as opposed to the COTS test flights, which were performed under a Space Act Agreement. This not needing an FAA license is fortuitous because the FAA is not issuing new or modified launch licenses during the gov't shutdown, and therefore the FAA closure will not hold up these tests. (Without saying what other issues may hold them up)

CCiCap's (SAA) successor CCtCap (FAR) has two distinctly different parts: (1) RDT&E and certification, including DM-x missions; and (2) post-certification flights.  While the entire CCiCap contract is under FAR, (2) are commercial flights under standard commercial FAR rules (thus requiring FAA commercial license); (1) are not.  Or such is the apparent logic.[1]


p.s. SpaceX in-flight abort was--and presumably still is--under CCiCap (SAA), and would thus require an FAA commercial license.

[1] edit: Which makes sense if you view CCtCap as a hybrid of two distinct contracts jammed into one document--which is what it is.  COTS/CRS did something similar, although while the contracts COTS(SAA) and CRS(FAR) were kept separate, they were awarded concurrently; CCtCap could not take the COTS/CRS approach (different discussion not for this thread).
« Last Edit: 01/17/2019 02:20 am by joek »

Online Alexphysics

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It seems the mission slipped to February 16th.

Russian article about it: https://ria.ru/20190121/1549642994.html

from Google Translate:
Quote
"The launch of the Dragon-2 ship has been postponed to February 16. A further postponement of the launch dates is not excluded. At least, the American side says so," the agencyís source said.

Ben Cooper's site seems to agree with that: http://www.launchphotography.com/Delta_4_Atlas_5_Falcon_9_Launch_Viewing.html

Quote
The next SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Cape Canaveral will launch the first Crew Dragon space capsule
on an uncrewed demonstration mission, DM-1, to the ISS from pad 39A on mid-February at the
earliest. The launch time is around 7 to 9am EST if this timeframe and gets 22-26 minutes earlier each
day. The launch window is instantaneous.

Online Alexphysics

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Worth noting the Falcon 9 has the DM-1 Crew Dragon on top for the static fire

https://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/status/1087607771711852547

Quote
The Falcon 9 rocket set to launch SpaceXís Crew Dragon spacecraft next month has arrived on pad 39A at NASAís Kennedy Space Center in Florida in preparation for a static test-firing as soon as Wednesday.

Online jpo234

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Worth noting the Falcon 9 has the DM-1 Crew Dragon on top for the static fire

https://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/status/1087607771711852547

Quote
The Falcon 9 rocket set to launch SpaceXís Crew Dragon spacecraft next month has arrived on pad 39A at NASAís Kennedy Space Center in Florida in preparation for a static test-firing as soon as Wednesday.

Question answered. Kind of called it...

Will they demate the Dragon from the booster or will they do the static fire with Dragon on top? This is supposed to be a human rated booster after all, so not doing the static fire with Dragon sends an ominous signal...
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Online pospa

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Worth noting the Falcon 9 has the DM-1 Crew Dragon on top for the static fire

https://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/status/1087607771711852547

Quote
The Falcon 9 rocket set to launch SpaceXís Crew Dragon spacecraft next month has arrived on pad 39A at NASAís Kennedy Space Center in Florida in preparation for a static test-firing as soon as Wednesday.

There is qualification requirement from NASA for F9+CD human flights: demonstrate 5 times successful load-and-go procedure before 1st lift off with humans on board CD. This is to finalize flight qualification of inovated COPV, Merlins, etc., all block 5 human rating modifications.

It suppose to be the following live tests:
1. DM-1 Static Fire
2. DM-1 Launch
3. IAT Static Fire
4. IAT Launch
5. DM-2 Static Fire

Only when all 5 will be OK, DM-2 flight licence will be granted (from NASA or FAA, or both?).
« Last Edit: 01/22/2019 10:42 am by pospa »

Online jpo234

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Only when all 5 will be OK, DM-2 flight licence will be granted (from NASA or FAA, or both?).

Just NASA, apparently.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47095.msg1901946#msg1901946

https://twitter.com/Free_Space/status/1085598069142495232

Quote
Apparently, Demo-1 and 2 don't need FAA launch licenses (under auspices of  NASA, like TESS launch. Post-certification missions will require FAA license, like CRS flights today
« Last Edit: 01/22/2019 11:44 am by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Online Alexphysics

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Worth noting the Falcon 9 has the DM-1 Crew Dragon on top for the static fire

https://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/status/1087607771711852547

Quote
The Falcon 9 rocket set to launch SpaceXís Crew Dragon spacecraft next month has arrived on pad 39A at NASAís Kennedy Space Center in Florida in preparation for a static test-firing as soon as Wednesday.

There is qualification requirement from NASA for F9+CD human flights: demonstrate 5 times successful load-and-go procedure before 1st lift off with humans on board CD. This is to finalize flight qualification of inovated COPV, Merlins, etc., all block 5 human rating modifications.

It suppose to be the following live tests:
1. DM-1 Static Fire
2. DM-1 Launch
3. IAT Static Fire
4. IAT Launch
5. DM-2 Static Fire

Only when all 5 will be OK, DM-2 flight licence will be granted (from NASA or FAA, or both?).

I know, I've actually reminded that here at least twice.

Offline TGMetsFan98

I feel like Iím missing something. How does having Dragon mated to F9 help certify F9ís fueling procedures? Unless itís having the abort system fueled and armed?
"Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here." -Coop

Online jpo234

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I feel like Iím missing something. How does having Dragon mated to F9 help certify F9ís fueling procedures? Unless itís having the abort system fueled and armed?

It shows confidence that the (human rated) booster won't blow up.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Norm38

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But the plan for crew is to have them strapped into their seats in Dragon before any fueling beings, right?  That way if something still did go wrong, they could pad abort?

So I guess it shows confidence.  But if I was putting Dragon on top of the stack for the static fire, I'd have the abort motors live and ready to fire.  Just in case.

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