SpaceX Falcon 9 : GovSat-1 (SES-16) : Jan 31. 2018 - Discussion

[Elthiryel]

I find it a bit strange that they are not releasing TLEs, but at the same time the final position in the GEO has been publicly announced, it was included in the mission press kit. So everyone will know where the satellite is, anyway.

[Johnnyhinbos]

I guess I'm just stuck in a rut - because unlike the majority of comments on here stating that "they see no reason to try to bring this booster home", I am of the continual thinking that attempting to bring this booster home is a very Elon way of thinking. Let me put it another way...

- Non-Elon way of thinking five years ago. "Of course you'd expend the booster. Why waste prop on recovery. Every drop is needed to put towards payload delivery - besides, recovery is expensive and preposterous."

- Elon way of thinking five years ago. "(Chuckle) Boy, I bet we can recover the booster in a way that we could reuse that sucker. Who cares if the first dozen blow up while trying. Now, where'd I leave that flamethrower prototype..."

I have many (many) other examples I could concoct, but point being - Elon tries things, even if he's pretty sure it'll fail, because even in failure cool things can be learned. Plus - and this is my general way of thinking too - often times to my detriment - if the general opinion says do A then perhaps the opposite of A is worth considering because A had been done to death...

[Zed_Noir]

Core will make a great display totem somewhere.

Just how many intact zombie rocket cores is out there? 

[cambrianera]

How hard would it be for the weight of the stage to be calculated or at least bounded from the released image?

Very hard.
Volume of the stage is about 400 m3, mass (from other sources) about 25 t.
Buoyancy line is very low (half a meter to one meter).
Interstage not touching water was +/- expected

[Semmel]

How hard would it be for the weight of the stage to be calculated or at least bounded from the released image?

I dont think its hard, just some work and it would not be very precise. We know the dimensions of the first stage, with image analysis you can guestimate the part of the rocket that is under water. With the water density and the submerged volume, you can calculate the mass. I guess it takes more than 20 minutes and less than 1 hour.

[CuddlyRocket]

I guess I'm just stuck in a rut - because unlike the majority of comments on here stating that "they see no reason to try to bring this booster home", I am of the continual thinking that attempting to bring this booster home is a very Elon way of thinking.

Elon is a genius at PR and marketing. I expect they've already decided if there's a recovery plan with a decent chance of success. If so, then he will play on the general public's penchant for anthropomorphising everything and for plucky underdog stories. There'll be tweets about 'only 50% chance of success' ; 'how the booster isn't giving up'; 'no booster left behind', 'only 20 miles to go, will it make it' etc, etc. Before you know it it will sail into Port Canaveral with huge crowds flying yellow ribbons! Result: large increase in awareness of SpaceX among the general public - favorable awareness at that - which may translate into political support.

If they can't think of such a recovery plan then it will be 'oh dear it sunk' and it'll be forgotten about when FH launches!

[RoboGoofers]

About the suggestion to retrieve data cards: Would the stage be designed to store data or video that wasn't transmitted? Perhaps some kind of black box for accident investigation, but surely not for video storage?

Also, could the legs have been deployed after splashdown? it seems something like that would help cushion the tople.

[speedevil]

About the suggestion to retrieve data cards: Would the stage be designed to store data or video that wasn't transmitted? Perhaps some kind of black box for accident investigation, but surely not for video storage?

Much modern electronics is quite water resistant from the point of saltwater immersion after poweroff.
Camera SD cards are routinely recovered from non-waterproof cameras that have fallen into the sea.
Wash it off, and power it up, and much data storage hardware will come back.

[AUricle]

Also, could the legs have been deployed after splashdown? it seems something like that would help cushion the tople.

If you listen to the webcast of the launch, the landing leg deployment is called out a few seconds after the call out of the landing burn start up

[Lar]

The engines are full of salt water -- is this worth recovering for some non-engine related engineering lessons, or more for the boats to learn to deal with a rocket which fell off the barge?  Or is there another reason this is valuable to get to land and review?

There may be data/video stored that was not transmitted.  I don't know if they need to get it to land to retrieve.

I can't remember where but I recall hearing there are Gopro cameras that have memory cards that are worth retrieving, because they have more info than is transmitted. If I were a betting man I'd give 10-1 odds that those are already onboard one of the Go twins as surely they have at least a couple guys with Scuba gear and wet (or dry) suits along... just in case.

As for bringing the whole stage back I do think they will give it a try. Because PR.

And because, as so eloquently pointed ou above, Elon is a showman and physics doesn't say it's impossible.

[IanThePineapple]

The engines are full of salt water -- is this worth recovering for some non-engine related engineering lessons, or more for the boats to learn to deal with a rocket which fell off the barge?  Or is there another reason this is valuable to get to land and review?

There may be data/video stored that was not transmitted.  I don't know if they need to get it to land to retrieve.

I can't remember where but I recall hearing there are Gopro cameras that have memory cards that are worth retrieving, because they have more info than is transmitted. If I were a betting man I'd give 10-1 odds that those are already onboard one of the Go twins as surely they have at least a couple guys with Scuba gear and wet (or dry) suits along... just in case.

As for bringing the whole stage back I do think they will give it a try. Because PR.

And because, as so eloquently pointed ou above, Elon is a showman and physics doesn't say it's impossible.

I mean, the boat's coming back anyway, why not bring back a souvenir.

If this booster survives the trip back and gets onto land, I think this is Smithsonian-worthy.

[speedevil]

I can't remember where but I recall hearing there are Gopro cameras that have memory cards that are worth retrieving, because they have more info than is transmitted. If I were a betting man I'd give 10-1 odds that those are already onboard one of the Go twins as surely they have at least a couple guys with Scuba gear and wet (or dry) suits along... just in case.

Won't the stage still be moderately pressurised, to the point that if something happened divers next to it would be killed?

Or do the tanks actually get vented to atmospheric?

[Prettz]

I can't remember where but I recall hearing there are Gopro cameras that have memory cards that are worth retrieving, because they have more info than is transmitted. If I were a betting man I'd give 10-1 odds that those are already onboard one of the Go twins as surely they have at least a couple guys with Scuba gear and wet (or dry) suits along... just in case.

Won't the stage still be moderately pressurised, to the point that if something happened divers next to it would be killed?

Or do the tanks actually get vented to atmospheric?

I asked this earlier and it got lost in all the back-and-forth. Still wanting to know which it is.

[lrk]

I can't remember where but I recall hearing there are Gopro cameras that have memory cards that are worth retrieving, because they have more info than is transmitted. If I were a betting man I'd give 10-1 odds that those are already onboard one of the Go twins as surely they have at least a couple guys with Scuba gear and wet (or dry) suits along... just in case.

Won't the stage still be moderately pressurised, to the point that if something happened divers next to it would be killed?

Or do the tanks actually get vented to atmospheric?

They routinely haul boosters across the country somewhat pressurized, although I'm not sure to what level.  So a pressurized booster can't be that dangerous. 

[Lar]

I can't remember where but I recall hearing there are Gopro cameras that have memory cards that are worth retrieving, because they have more info than is transmitted. If I were a betting man I'd give 10-1 odds that those are already onboard one of the Go twins as surely they have at least a couple guys with Scuba gear and wet (or dry) suits along... just in case.

Won't the stage still be moderately pressurised, to the point that if something happened divers next to it would be killed?

Or do the tanks actually get vented to atmospheric?

I don't know but if that's true, I would expect all the "put a floatation collar on it" and "attach a tow line to the interstage" suggestions are also non starters?

[gongora]

They routinely haul boosters across the country somewhat pressurized, although I'm not sure to what level.  So a pressurized booster can't be that dangerous.

This booster has a lot of liquids and gases (and explosives) that wouldn't be in the boosters getting trucked around the country.

[Lars-J]

Elon likes a good story and this is a good story.  The first stage booster that wouldn't sink.  AFAIK, if SpaceX can bring this booster back, this will be the first fully intact, liquid first stage booster in history, that has been recovered.  Look at the excitement this stage has made on this website.  This would be one more first for Elon and SpaceX. 

I hate to break it too you, but they have recovered MANY boosters. They have all been fully intact. Even more intact than this one.

I also feel that there will be valuable information that can be gleaned from this booster if it can be recovered.  "I think I can, I think I can," I think that SpaceX that will be able to recover this booster.  Even if it does sink, it will make another great Elon story.  The great booster rescue.

What valuable information?  How it floats? It matters not... Water handling is not a requirement of F9.  This one will likely not yield any real useful engineering data, other than an indication it is built well.

[Lar]

They routinely haul boosters across the country somewhat pressurized, although I'm not sure to what level.  So a pressurized booster can't be that dangerous.

This booster has a lot of liquids and gases (and explosives) that wouldn't be in the boosters getting trucked around the country.

That's interesting. The transport trailers have devices that I beleive keep the stage tanks partially pressurised with inert gas (nitrogen or atmosphere?) so no liquids or gases but I always assumed that the plastic explosive zipcord was put on in Hatwthorne[1], not at the launch pad... so it WOULD have explosives on it during transport. Wrong?

1 - and stayed on forever, across reuses, even?

[oiorionsbelt]

They routinely haul boosters across the country somewhat pressurized, although I'm not sure to what level.  So a pressurized booster can't be that dangerous.

This booster has a lot of liquids and gases (and explosives) that wouldn't be in the boosters getting trucked around the country.

That's interesting. The transport trailers have devices that I beleive keep the stage tanks partially pressurised with inert gas (nitrogen or atmosphere?) so no liquids or gasses but I always assumed that the plastic explosive zipcord was put on in Hatwthorne, not at the launch pad... so it WOULD have explosives on it during transport. Wrong?

Also what do they do, when they 'safe' the booster? How much 'safe-ing' were they able to do on this booster?

[Lar]

What valuable information?  How it floats? It matters not... Water handling is not a requirement of F9.  This one will likely not yield any real useful engineering data, other than an indication it is built well.

And that's valuable... Why didn't it pop and RUD? It should have. How much material might be removable going forward to save weight (and cost)?