Author Topic: 'The Expanse' on SyFy - First trailer for new space opera show  (Read 73161 times)

Offline sanman

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I've just watched the first season (10 episodes) and it looks pretty cool and suspenseful. But because I couldn't wait for season 2 to show up, I read ahead on the internet as to what's going to happen - and it sounds pretty amazing.

Arthur C Clarke's 2001 universe meets Rodney Moore's BSG reboot meets Stracynski's Babylon5.

Good to read that Syfy has picked up the second season. I liked all the characters.









« Last Edit: 02/07/2016 03:38 AM by sanman »

Offline fregate

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I highly recommend to read books from the series - TV Series left some IMPORTANT details :(
« Last Edit: 02/07/2016 05:01 AM by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline sanman

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I guess they had to adapt from one medium to another, but there was a lot of collaboration between the writers and the producers:



« Last Edit: 02/08/2016 01:01 AM by sanman »

Offline gosnold

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http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2925/1

An article on the Space Review, written by Dwayne Day, on the Expanse and the disconnect between the depiction of space settlement in media and the image its advocates want to put forward:
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The Expanse is the closest depiction of what space settlement advocates must see when they dream—and yet it is not a very positive vision of the future.

Unmarked spoilers for Europa report and Interstellar (and the Martian to some extent).

Offline gosnold

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New trailer for season 2 of the Expanse, which premieres February 1:

Offline Triptych

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I binge watched the entire season in one weekend last month. It's pretty good, the only thing I found implausible are the stealth ships but other than that I'm looking forward to season 2. Now I'm gonna binge watch Westworld this weekend.  :D

Offline JasonAW3

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I binge watched the entire season in one weekend last month. It's pretty good, the only thing I found implausible are the stealth ships but other than that I'm looking forward to season 2. Now I'm gonna binge watch Westworld this weekend.  :D

What did you find implausible?

      Most craft in space aren't going to NEED to be stealthy, including the military craft.  Stealth is just another form of Electronic Warfare, typically using reduced radar, heat and RF signatures.

      Forms of polymerized aerogels, and RF absorbing pants or structures, as well as structural configurations, would reduce the radar profile, use of focused X-ray LIDAR would allow for sensor sweeps, while passive sensor arrays would allow data gathering from available light thermal and RF emissions of potential targets, while extensive use of both low power equipment requirements for equipment and fiber optic communications  throughout the ship for computer and instrument datalinks, rather than standard wiring, would further reduce induced RF emissions.

      Heat and thermal emissions would be reduced by use of cold gas maneuvering thrusters, waste heat dumping directly into the exhaust, via coolant dumping, as well as using heat sinks to absorb waste heat that can't be dumped prior to attack.  The main engines would be used for short, high G thrust bursts, and they would be housed in set of cooling panels, dumping to the heat sinks for later passive or active emissions, to shield the thermal, optical and radiation signature of said bursts.  The inner hull would likely be encased within either supercooled  liquid hydrogen, or another, potentially less volatile liquidized gas, to act as both thermal barrier and coolant.  interior crew cabin temperatures would be kept low, to the minimum tolerance of the crew, to further minimize potential IR emissions.

      Overall; most craft wouldn't try to be stealthy, as in an emergency, they'd WANT to be found.  The stealth craft?  It would be a potential suicide mission on multiple fronts.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Online RonM

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I binge watched the entire season in one weekend last month. It's pretty good, the only thing I found implausible are the stealth ships but other than that I'm looking forward to season 2. Now I'm gonna binge watch Westworld this weekend.  :D

What did you find implausible?

      Most craft in space aren't going to NEED to be stealthy, including the military craft.  Stealth is just another form of Electronic Warfare, typically using reduced radar, heat and RF signatures.

      Forms of polymerized aerogels, and RF absorbing pants or structures, as well as structural configurations, would reduce the radar profile, use of focused X-ray LIDAR would allow for sensor sweeps, while passive sensor arrays would allow data gathering from available light thermal and RF emissions of potential targets, while extensive use of both low power equipment requirements for equipment and fiber optic communications  throughout the ship for computer and instrument datalinks, rather than standard wiring, would further reduce induced RF emissions.

      Heat and thermal emissions would be reduced by use of cold gas maneuvering thrusters, waste heat dumping directly into the exhaust, via coolant dumping, as well as using heat sinks to absorb waste heat that can't be dumped prior to attack.  The main engines would be used for short, high G thrust bursts, and they would be housed in set of cooling panels, dumping to the heat sinks for later passive or active emissions, to shield the thermal, optical and radiation signature of said bursts.  The inner hull would likely be encased within either supercooled  liquid hydrogen, or another, potentially less volatile liquidized gas, to act as both thermal barrier and coolant.  interior crew cabin temperatures would be kept low, to the minimum tolerance of the crew, to further minimize potential IR emissions.

      Overall; most craft wouldn't try to be stealthy, as in an emergency, they'd WANT to be found.  The stealth craft?  It would be a potential suicide mission on multiple fronts.

Even if there was someway to hide the IR signature of the ship, you are not going to be able to hide the IR signature of the main engine exhaust.

Checkout what they have to say about stealth in space here:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php#nostealth

Offline JasonAW3

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Even if there was someway to hide the IR signature of the ship, you are not going to be able to hide the IR signature of the main engine exhaust.

Checkout what they have to say about stealth in space here:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php#nostealth

Maybe not completely hide it, but both diminish it and shield it from view.  The idea here is to use, for the approach from long range, short, high G thrusts, to minimize the initial IR signature, course correcting with cold gas thrusters.  Once the initial course is established, continuous thrust wouldn't be required.  Thrust would then be used at relatively close range for the actual attack.  (BTW; LH2 would most likely NOT be the coolant of choice, as dumped into the exhaust, it would tend to flare up.  My bad on that).

      The idea is to shield and MINIMIZE the IR signature.  You can't eliminate it entirely, but you can reduce it.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline Triptych

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I binge watched the entire season in one weekend last month. It's pretty good, the only thing I found implausible are the stealth ships but other than that I'm looking forward to season 2. Now I'm gonna binge watch Westworld this weekend.  :D

What did you find implausible?

      Most craft in space aren't going to NEED to be stealthy, including the military craft.  Stealth is just another form of Electronic Warfare, typically using reduced radar, heat and RF signatures.

      Forms of polymerized aerogels, and RF absorbing pants or structures, as well as structural configurations, would reduce the radar profile, use of focused X-ray LIDAR would allow for sensor sweeps, while passive sensor arrays would allow data gathering from available light thermal and RF emissions of potential targets, while extensive use of both low power equipment requirements for equipment and fiber optic communications  throughout the ship for computer and instrument datalinks, rather than standard wiring, would further reduce induced RF emissions.

      Heat and thermal emissions would be reduced by use of cold gas maneuvering thrusters, waste heat dumping directly into the exhaust, via coolant dumping, as well as using heat sinks to absorb waste heat that can't be dumped prior to attack.  The main engines would be used for short, high G thrust bursts, and they would be housed in set of cooling panels, dumping to the heat sinks for later passive or active emissions, to shield the thermal, optical and radiation signature of said bursts.  The inner hull would likely be encased within either supercooled  liquid hydrogen, or another, potentially less volatile liquidized gas, to act as both thermal barrier and coolant.  interior crew cabin temperatures would be kept low, to the minimum tolerance of the crew, to further minimize potential IR emissions.

      Overall; most craft wouldn't try to be stealthy, as in an emergency, they'd WANT to be found.  The stealth craft?  It would be a potential suicide mission on multiple fronts.

Even if there was someway to hide the IR signature of the ship, you are not going to be able to hide the IR signature of the main engine exhaust.

Checkout what they have to say about stealth in space here:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php#nostealth
Exactly. The linked article itself cites the fact that we can still detect Voyager I from earth even though its billions of kilometers away and its got a very faint radio signal. Stealth in space is impossible, especially with fusion drives- the heat signature cannot be masked.

Offline JasonAW3

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Exactly. The linked article itself cites the fact that we can still detect Voyager I from earth even though its billions of kilometers away and its got a very faint radio signal. Stealth in space is impossible, especially with fusion drives- the heat signature cannot be masked.


The problem here is simple; We know where to look for Voyager 1.  A stealthed craft would be much harder to see.       

      As to fusion drives; There'd be next to zero neutron emissions, and the only other way to detect them would be by thermal signature.  (Assuming maximum radar and thermal stealthing)

      A short, properly shielded burst of thrust, (Assuming a pulse, much like a small nuke going off within a containment system designed to maximize the directed energy, kinetic thermal, and otherwise, in a direction opposite of the direction that the craft is going) COULD and likely would, be written off as transient sensor noise.  Especially if it came from a craft that no one else even knew existed.

      As a simple case study; even with all of the visual and radio telescope capabilities of today, only a small fraction of the NEO asteroids have been found and had their orbits plotted.

      Even assuming vast improvements in LIDAR, Radar, and possibly X-ray LIDAR, and optical and thermal detection systems, it's still going to be incredibly difficult to find a relatively small space craft, even unstealthed craft, at distances exceeding tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, let alone from millions of kilometers away.  Transient thermal pulses could be written off as small, high velocity asteroids impacting one another.

      And; even assuming all of the above is true, in the story, they supposedly developed some form of much more efficient engine, that uses far less reaction mass, but no one has explained precisely how they work, either in the books or in the series.  It may be that it might be far easier to shield whatever thermal or radiation emissions that they produce.  Even their radiation shielding is far better than ours, (If I remember the episode correctly) as they had a character that the detective was pursuing, (whose name had been hijacked by another individual, who wound up dead) who was in a race, skimming the atmosphere of Jupiter.  (Didn't turn out well for him).

      That close to Jupiter is a lethal zone of radiation, with current technology, but with technology in a couple of hundred years?  Who Knows?
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Offline Blackstar

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Before the new season starts, catch up here:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2925/1


Offline Triptych

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Exactly. The linked article itself cites the fact that we can still detect Voyager I from earth even though its billions of kilometers away and its got a very faint radio signal. Stealth in space is impossible, especially with fusion drives- the heat signature cannot be masked.


The problem here is simple; We know where to look for Voyager 1.  A stealthed craft would be much harder to see.       

      As to fusion drives; There'd be next to zero neutron emissions, and the only other way to detect them would be by thermal signature.  (Assuming maximum radar and thermal stealthing)

      A short, properly shielded burst of thrust, (Assuming a pulse, much like a small nuke going off within a containment system designed to maximize the directed energy, kinetic thermal, and otherwise, in a direction opposite of the direction that the craft is going) COULD and likely would, be written off as transient sensor noise.  Especially if it came from a craft that no one else even knew existed.

      As a simple case study; even with all of the visual and radio telescope capabilities of today, only a small fraction of the NEO asteroids have been found and had their orbits plotted.

      Even assuming vast improvements in LIDAR, Radar, and possibly X-ray LIDAR, and optical and thermal detection systems, it's still going to be incredibly difficult to find a relatively small space craft, even unstealthed craft, at distances exceeding tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, let alone from millions of kilometers away.  Transient thermal pulses could be written off as small, high velocity asteroids impacting one another.

      And; even assuming all of the above is true, in the story, they supposedly developed some form of much more efficient engine, that uses far less reaction mass, but no one has explained precisely how they work, either in the books or in the series.  It may be that it might be far easier to shield whatever thermal or radiation emissions that they produce.  Even their radiation shielding is far better than ours, (If I remember the episode correctly) as they had a character that the detective was pursuing, (whose name had been hijacked by another individual, who wound up dead) who was in a race, skimming the atmosphere of Jupiter.  (Didn't turn out well for him).

      That close to Jupiter is a lethal zone of radiation, with current technology, but with technology in a couple of hundred years?  Who Knows?
If youve read the article cited you will note that they actually found Voyager, using a network of telescopes that was able to find the glow from the probe's transmitter, which was emitting around 20 watts- about the same as a lightbulb. And that was while it was tens of billions of km away. This was using today's tech. The fact is the probe stuck out like a sore thumb in the vastness of space.

The space shuttle's maneuvering thrusters can be seen as far as the asteroid belt.

Everything we know about fusion is that it burns hotter than fission, enough to vaporize reaction chambers. It also produces a lot of radiation.

So if you want to believe that ships can be stealthed in space, fine, go ahead. Science does not back it up.

I like The Expanse, it gets a lot of things right- from the effects of gravity and physics and all that. It does have one fantasy point which is the stealthed ships, and I'll let it slide, simply because the rest of the show is awesome.

Offline Coastal Ron

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So if you want to believe that ships can be stealthed in space, fine, go ahead. Science does not back it up.

What science are you assuming can find stealthy ships in unexpected places millions of kilometers away?

Quote
I like The Expanse, it gets a lot of things right- from the effects of gravity and physics and all that. It does have one fantasy point which is the stealthed ships, and I'll let it slide, simply because the rest of the show is awesome.

It's science fiction, not science fact, so there is no way to know who is right or wrong.

For me, I look forward to be entertained without being distracted by obvious inconsistencies, and since I know we have stealth here on Earth, having it in space is not a big leap of faith.  YMMV.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Triptych

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What science are you assuming can find stealthy ships in unexpected places millions of kilometers away?

So you edited out the part where I explained how we were able to find Voyager and then ask the same question again? Hmmm.  ???

Quote
It's science fiction, not science fact, so there is no way to know who is right or wrong.
Yes, thank you. As Ive said , I like the show and the homage it pays to science for the most part, I was commenting on why I found the stealth ships to be implausible while the rest of it is good. It's not a "you must love everything about it or you hate it" choice you know.

Quote

For me, I look forward to be entertained without being distracted by obvious inconsistencies, and since I know we have stealth here on Earth, having it in space is not a big leap of faith.  YMMV.
Earth's atmosphere is not space. But hey- believe what you want, it's a free country.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2016 03:36 AM by Triptych »

Offline high road

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What science are you assuming can find stealthy ships in unexpected places millions of kilometers away?

So you edited out the part where I explained how we were able to find Voyager and then ask the same question again? Hmmm.  ???


Haven't been able to get a legal look at the series yet, but I'm reading the books. They clearly say that they can detect 'something', but their software doesn't recognize it as a ship, due to it's much lower (yet not inexistant) heat signature and lack of other emissions. Stealth planes show up on radar as well, only much 'smaller' than their actual size. Later on, they explain that the stealth ships can temporarily reduce their own heat signature, but have to dump the stored heat eventually. As soon as they fire up any system, their 'stealth mode' is broken and they are easily recognizable.

The other ships can only detect 'something', but the next time they encounter the stealth ship, the signal is instantly recognized by the main characters. One of the secondary characters attempts to make it off the ship with the detected signature, so the stealth ships would be rendered useless, as it would be easy for ships to detect them. The stealth ships are at that stage an experimental technology with limited military use (you have to destroy everything that ever encounters them to keep them useful), of which it is never stated that they are used by anyone else than the company that designed them, and only in a way to hide their secret projects. It's not like anyone's shouting that stealth ships exist.

A planet's worth of detection equipment would probably not have any problem to detect stealth ships, once they know what to look for. In fact, I'm not going to explain this further because there's a minor plot point about this in the second book, which is probably the next season. But the latency between detection of something on one location and communicating that knowledge out to where it's needed, is a constant plot point in the series. The reason why you need to know what to look for, is that the series is set in a future where the outer solar system is riddled with wreckage and jettissoned fusion cores from decades of rag-tag space colonists trying to make a living in harsh economic conditions. There would be a lot more strange signals out there than there is now.

As for unbelievable technologies, besides from economics, spinning up Eros and Ceres without disintegrating them, and then have them hollowed out deep enough for the 'slums' to experience coriolis effect high enough to seriously impact all main characters rather than rendering them a little queezy is mental. Especially when some of these characters are used to drink all kinds of moonshine broth.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2016 07:58 AM by high road »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Purely IMO, Expanse has the most  realistic-looking spaceflight technology that I've seen in sci-fi so far; even better than season-1 Babylon 5 (before, under pressure from the studios, JMS removed Newtonian physics because the viewers didn't think it looked 'realistic').
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Offline Jarnis

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Purely IMO, Expanse has the most  realistic-looking spaceflight technology that I've seen in sci-fi so far; even better than season-1 Babylon 5 (before, under pressure from the studios, JMS removed Newtonian physics because the viewers didn't think it looked 'realistic').

In all honesty, B5 tried to retain that long after first season, but doing it in a more subtle way. They went all "scyfy" on it only after Foundation Imaging stopped doing the effects (start of season 4, if my faulty memory is correct) - funnily this happened because Paramount gave Foundation Imaging a gig on doing effects for Star Trek: Voyager and B5 producers didn't trust the company could still do B5 as well with their most senior animators tied with Voyager work.

Netter Digital was then born - a new effects house that got started almost out of the blue to do the remaining B5 seasons. They were not terrible, but they were not Foundation Imaging either.

Ron Thronton did some impressive CGI stuff on Amigas and desktop PCs back when everyone else was still using models. This post actually led me to google him up and find out that he too died during 2016. What a crummy year it was

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ron-thornton-dead-babylon-5-visual-effects-designer-was-59-949981

Offline Lars-J

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Season 2 just premiered yesterday with a double episode, a good start to a new season!  8)

The show is now getting to the conclusion of book 1.

My only complaint would be that they are IMO overdoing it with Draper. I know she is a fan favorite, but she is being shoehorned in as a badass a bit too strongly.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2017 04:11 PM by Lars-J »

Offline francesco nicoli

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Season 2 just premiered yesterday with a double episode, a good start to a new season!  8)

The show is now getting to the conclusion of book 1.

My only complaint would be that they are IMO overdoing it with Draper. I know she is a fan favorite, but she is being shoehorned in as a badass a bit too strongly.

oh c'mon, in Babilon's Ashes she rocks. Seriously, no spoilers but.....

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