SpaceX and OneWeb internet satellite comparison

[MikeAtkinson]

Updated original post, also used http://tmfassociates.com/blog/2015/06/11/round-1-to-wyler

[MikeAtkinson]

Airbus D&S has won the contract to build ~900 satellites for OneWeb: http://airbusdefenceandspace.com/newsroom/news-and-features/airbus-defence-and-space-selected-to-partner-in-production-of-oneweb-satellite-constellation/

Well, that should be interesting..... 

P.S. Is there a dedicated thread on OneWeb here?

How big are the one web sats and how roughly expensive would that be, using Ariane 5 launch prices?/whatever working figure for the satellites we want? Talking for the sake of cost comparison here.

150 kg, which I would guess to fit in about 0.5 m^3 when packed for launch. Allowing for a dispenser Ariane 5 can carry about 100 of these satellites.

As there are probably less than 50 satellites in a plane, the question is can the Ariane 5 upper stage (ES) do the plane change(s)?

[Kryten]

 Why are we assuming Ariane 5? The only launcher that's been explicitly mentioned for this constellation is LauncherOne.

[MikeAtkinson]

Why are we assuming Ariane 5? The only launcher that's been explicitly mentioned for this constellation is LauncherOne.

No assumption, question from The Amazing Catstronaut was for sake of comparison.

[AnalogMan]

Airbus D&S has won the contract to build ~900 satellites for OneWeb: http://airbusdefenceandspace.com/newsroom/news-and-features/airbus-defence-and-space-selected-to-partner-in-production-of-oneweb-satellite-constellation/

Well, that should be interesting..... 

P.S. Is there a dedicated thread on OneWeb here?

OneWeb thread with the announcement has been created by Skyrocket, here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37814.0

[daj24]

Virgin Galactic says that LauncherOne can loft a payload up to 225Kg.  Wouldn't that mean one launch per satellite?  So they want to have 700 to 900 launches?  Seems inefficient.  Even at two per that would be a lot of launches.  Good for LauncherOne, bad for orbital debris.

[Prober]

Now for some fun.....this reminds me of a movie.

[Robotbeat]

Oh please.

[meekGee]

Why are we assuming Ariane 5? The only launcher that's been explicitly mentioned for this constellation is LauncherOne.

It's more that we (well, some) are questioning Launcher One:  It doesn't exist yet, the parent company is running extremely late on its other project, and even at the advertised price, it would make the W1 constellation nearly as expensive as the much more capable SpaceX one.

They need a large launcher, and if you believe that, than you have to wonder about involvement by Ariane Space as well.  For that matter, if Ariane is to survive, they need a major customer like this one, so they might be tempted to offer a really good launch price IF satellite manufacturing also goes to Europe.

[Zed_Noir]

So is the Ariane 5 capable of delivering payloads to the different orbital planes require by OneWeb from the permitted launch azimuth at Kourou?

[chapi]

So is the Ariane 5 capable of delivering payloads to the different orbital planes require by OneWeb from the permitted launch azimuth at Kourou?

Launch Azimut is pretty open at Kourou except if you'd the weird idea of launching Westwards or Southwards.

Moreover, with so many satellites, the different orbital planes should be close from each other. Maybe not such a problem to launch multiple planes at a time.

[Zed_Noir]

So is the Ariane 5 capable of delivering payloads to the different orbital planes require by OneWeb from the permitted launch azimuth at Kourou?

Launch Azimut is pretty open at Kourou except if you'd the weird idea of launching Westwards or Southwards.

Moreover, with so many satellites, the different orbital planes should be close from each other. Maybe not such a problem to launch multiple planes at a time.

So you can do polar and high inclination orbits from Kourou?

[douglas100]

Polar orbits have already been done from Kourou for many years.

[MikeAtkinson]

http://tmfassociates.com/blog/2015/06/11/round-1-to-wyler

The next step will be to seek as much as $1.7B in export credit financing from COFACE to support the project with an objective of closing that deal by the end of 2015.

COFACE is the French export credit agency (http://www.eca-watch.org/ecas/coface).

This probably means that OneWeb is planning to launch with Arianespace, $1.7B implies 9-10 launches of Ariane 5 or about 70 launches of an upgraded Vega.

[Robotbeat]

SpaceX could launch it, and do so much cheaper.

[daj24]

"Airbus agrees to make hundreds of satellites for OneWeb internet service."

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/airbus-agrees-make-hundreds-satellites-oneweb-internet-service-n376056

[Sam Ho]

Why are we assuming Ariane 5? The only launcher that's been explicitly mentioned for this constellation is LauncherOne.

It's more that we (well, some) are questioning Launcher One:  It doesn't exist yet, the parent company is running extremely late on its other project, and even at the advertised price, it would make the W1 constellation nearly as expensive as the much more capable SpaceX one.

They need a large launcher, and if you believe that, than you have to wonder about involvement by Ariane Space as well.  For that matter, if Ariane is to survive, they need a major customer like this one, so they might be tempted to offer a really good launch price IF satellite manufacturing also goes to Europe.

The Airbus announcement says that only the first 10 satellites will be built in France.  The rest will be built in the US.  Presumably, this is to improve chances of getting both Coface and ExIm financing (assuming ExIm makes it past the end of the month.)

The satellite infographic OneWeb released suggests that the satellites will be about 1m cubed.  This may be just an artist's concept, though.  OG2 is about the same 150kg mass and is 1mx1mx50cm.

The constellation infographic depicts 12 planes of 24 satellites, which is certainly just an illustration, since the operational constellation is 648 satellites.

http://airbusdefenceandspace.com/newsroom/news-and-features/airbus-defence-and-space-selected-to-partner-in-production-of-oneweb-satellite-constellation/

[BuzzumFrog]

I posted this on the *LIVE* thread, but upon second reflection I thought it would be more appropriate here.

http://spacenews.com/qa-with-brian-holz-director-of-oneweb-space-systems/

"Even if the satellite production plant is not in Silicon Valley given the prevailing costs there?

No, we won’t have a production plant in Silicon Valley. I don’t know that that makes too much sense from a business perspective. But we’re definitely going to have a strong presence in Silicon Valley. There are a lot of assets there that this system is going to require. We’ll have a presence out there to help secure the talent base that is out there. But from a manufacturing standpoint, it doesn’t necessarily make sense."

[TrevorMonty]

Targeting $500K build cost for 150kg satellite, life 5yrs+.
Launch cost is going to be significant,  given they are going to 1200km. 

[nadreck]

Targeting $500K build cost for 150kg satellite, life 5yrs+.
Launch cost is going to be significant,  given they are going to 1200km.

I think a more significant gating of the launch cost will be the dispenser system, or rather what density they can launch these at. I remember numbers like 16 being batted around here. On a simple mass basis there are several of LV that could put the mass of 50 of these in a 1200km near circular orbit. If one such booster that cost in the order of $200M were used it would put the per unit launch cost at $4M on a mass basis, but if only 16 can be arranged in the fairing and dispensed that boosts the unit cost to by more than 3 times!  I have no doubt that both OneWeb and SpaceX can achieve costs bellow $1M per unit for their constellations, but for OneWeb to truly take advantage of that cost savings, they also need to have the benefit of both high density dispensers and the cost savings promised with FH, that way they could get launch costs below build costs.