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New potential fellow CEV worker.... by nav66 on 04 Aug, 2006 03:05
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Well, folks, I have just submitted my final paperwork accepting a job with the Lockheed Martin team if they get the contract.
I have waited since I was 6 years old for this. Apollo 17 was the event that I always point to as the start of my odyssey through the aerospace world. Just about everything I have done professionally since 1972 is tied to watching Gene-o, Jack and Ron on TV during that December mission.
For the past ten years, I have worked for Lockheed Martin. Immediately after the Columbia disaster, in a fit of militance, I wrote to my executives at LM Space Systems in Denver suggesting we should entertain adapting the Atlas V as a launcher for Soyuz spacecraft. No response, of course, but it set me on a journey that ends, potentially, in the next three weeks.
Within the first few weeks after Columbia, I had sought Dr. Heinz-Hermann Koelle over the internet. I had a book he edited back in 1961, forwarded by Dr. Wernher von Braun, called "Handbook of Astronautical Engineering". It is still one of my most prized posessions. I asked him to co-write a paper with me for the 2003 International Lunar Conference in Hawaii. While we never physically met, we were able to collaborate on a paper. I am sure he never completely approved of the final product, but I am just your average guy, not one of von Braun's team.
I delivered the paper in Hawaii in November, 2003. Dr. Koelle was not present, but in the audience were both Capt. John Young and Dr. Harrison Schmitt. Two of my childhood heroes, and I got to speak in front of them. At the beginning, I mentioned that I was at that conference because I was sparked to action by the final Apollo flight. Jack Schmitt gestured with a spirited upward pumping motion of his arm when I said that. Damned cool experience.
Since then, I have been watching with excitement and apprehension all these CEV/CLV developments. I got to see last year's shuttle launch firsthand (just happened to be working at Cape Canaveral that week). I also had the grim satisfaction of hiring 14 people into my organization at Lockheed who previously were supporting NASA space science programs at Ames Research Center until NASA cut their funding in lieu of Exploration. I was happy to save them, but equally sad that we had to get to that point in the first place.
Early this year, I applied for a "blue sky req" that Lockheed put out for CEV. I didn't expect to get called, but I did - and I couldn't be happier about it.
In two or three weeks, we will all find out the result. Lockheed Martin, or NG/Boeing. I just wanted all you folks on this forum to know that some of us are lining up right now to contribute in what small way we can. I'll tell you this: if I am fortunate enough to get a job on this program, I will give it my all, and I will try to help build the best goddamn spaceship the world has ever seen.
- Steve in Sunnyvale -
#1 by lmike on 04 Aug, 2006 03:10
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Admirable attitude! I wish you luck.
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#2 by Wolverine on 04 Aug, 2006 03:11
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Wow! Congratulations!
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#3 by kraisee on 04 Aug, 2006 04:09
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Well done Steve. It's inspiring to hear a tale like yours.
Ross. -
#4 by zinfab on 04 Aug, 2006 04:46
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Thanks for that, steve. keep us apprised.
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#5 by Austin on 04 Aug, 2006 05:02
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Steve, your passion and commitment are readily apparent. People like you make space-obssessed folks like us proud!
Congratualtions to you!!!
Austin -
#6 by MATTBLAK on 04 Aug, 2006 07:07
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I salute you, Steve, for you will be able to do what I cannot. Apollo 17 splashed down on the morning of my 7th birthday. Down here in New Zealand I was allowed to get up real early on my birthday to watch it live on TV. Those Astronauts were 'my guys' and I've never forgotten that morning.
Incidentally, I've rooted all along for Lockheed-Martin to win the CEV contract!!
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#7 by Jester on 04 Aug, 2006 12:03
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seeing it's your first post, Welcome on board Steve, good luck and make us proud !
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#8 by vt_hokie on 04 Aug, 2006 12:11
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Best of luck to you!
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#9 by Chris Bergin on 04 Aug, 2006 12:39
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Nice one Steve...we've got a LOT of LM people here, so I'm sure they wish you well, as do I.
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#10 by James (Lockheed) on 04 Aug, 2006 12:46
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MATTBLAK - 4/8/2006 1:54 AM
Incidentally, I've rooted all along for Lockheed-Martin to win the CEV contract!!
Not going to happen.
Lockheed will get the Upper stage. -
#11 by James (Lockheed) on 04 Aug, 2006 12:48
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Chris Bergin - 4/8/2006 7:26 AM
Nice one Steve...we've got a LOT of LM people here, so I'm sure they wish you well, as do I.
There's hundreds of Lockheed here as NASASpaceflight is forever linked on the internal news service (they really like this site). All the best to you Steve. -
#12 by Propforce on 04 Aug, 2006 20:55
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James (Lockheed) - 4/8/2006 5:33 AM
QuoteMATTBLAK - 4/8/2006 1:54 AM
Incidentally, I've rooted all along for Lockheed-Martin to win the CEV contract!!
Not going to happen.
Lockheed will get the Upper stage.
What is the basis of your prediction? -
#13 by astrobrian on 04 Aug, 2006 21:08
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Best of luck to you
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#14 by Generic Username on 05 Aug, 2006 04:09
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Propforce - 4/8/2006 3:42 PM
QuoteJames (Lockheed) - 4/8/2006 5:33 AM
QuoteMATTBLAK - 4/8/2006 1:54 AM
Incidentally, I've rooted all along for Lockheed-Martin to win the CEV contract!!
Not going to happen.
Lockheed will get the Upper stage.
What is the basis of your prediction?
Lockheed is more or less the obvious choice for the second stage, having Michoud and all. If they get the second stage, politics will virtually dictate that some else gets the CEV.
What would be nice is if Lockheed would sic the Skunk Works on the second stage. Not only get the weight down, but make it recoverable... do like SASSTO and work on making it into a complete launch vehicle in it's own right.... drooooollll......... -
#15 by vt_hokie on 05 Aug, 2006 05:01
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I'm still hoping that Lockheed Martin really does having something like "Blackstar" up its sleeve that could make CEV irrelevant for crew transport to/from Low Earth Orbit! I have to believe that such an air launched system, if it exists, would cost less per flight and require far less preparation and manpower than a traditional launch system.
Lockheed has a long list of launch vehicle concepts and spacecraft concepts that it has produced over the years, and I'd love to see what it could make into reality if given more leeway than NASA is giving with the CEV program. -
#16 by Jim on 05 Aug, 2006 14:20
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Generic Username - 4/8/2006 11:56 PM
QuotePropforce - 4/8/2006 3:42 PM
QuoteJames (Lockheed) - 4/8/2006 5:33 AM
QuoteMATTBLAK - 4/8/2006 1:54 AM
Incidentally, I've rooted all along for Lockheed-Martin to win the CEV contract!!
Not going to happen.
Lockheed will get the Upper stage.
What is the basis of your prediction?
Lockheed is more or less the obvious choice for the second stage, having Michoud and all. If they get the second stage, politics will virtually dictate that some else gets the CEV.
What would be nice is if Lockheed would sic the Skunk Works on the second stage. Not only get the weight down, but make it recoverable... do like SASSTO and work on making it into a complete launch vehicle in it's own right.... drooooollll.........
MAF is just a facility that NASA owns and LM currently occupies to build ET's. There is nothing special about that. Another contractor can come in and do the same thing. There is no advantage. -
#17 by Jim on 05 Aug, 2006 14:21
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vt_hokie - 5/8/2006 12:48 AM
Lockheed has a long list of launch vehicle concepts and spacecraft concepts that it has produced over the years, and I'd love to see what it could make into reality if given more leeway than NASA is giving with the CEV program.
CEV is not for LEO. It is to go to the moon and Mars. Air breathing engines won't help there. -
#18 by vt_hokie on 05 Aug, 2006 22:09
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Jim - 5/8/2006 10:08 AM
CEV is not for LEO. It is to go to the moon and Mars. Air breathing engines won't help there.
If we already have a LEO crew transportation system, and especially if it costs less to operate than CEV will, making it available to NASA would free the agency to put its money into ARES V and a lunar vehicle, instead of pouring billions into ARES I and the LEO CEV capsule. -
#19 by Jim on 06 Aug, 2006 08:12
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No, the CEV is still required for the lunar missions.
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#20 by astrobrian on 06 Aug, 2006 14:33
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Either way the CEV costs could be channeled more towards the lunar aspect rather that LEO
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#21 by Propforce on 06 Aug, 2006 17:06
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Generic Username - 4/8/2006 8:56 PM
What would be nice is if Lockheed would sic the Skunk Works on the second stage. Not only get the weight down, but make it recoverable... do like SASSTO and work on making it into a complete launch vehicle in it's own right.... drooooollll.........
Skunk Works people don't know much about how to design a launch vehicle, just look at the X-33.
You'll need the Denver people to do the job.
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#22 by Inthemix on 07 Aug, 2006 05:46
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*grumble, grumble*
Two years now and Denver's only nibbled at the bait at the end of my line. Been nearly a month since I applied for the latest position with no contact. I'm hoping that they're just too busy to answer emails.
Well, congrats anyway. Hope to see you in person.
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#23 by Propforce on 08 Aug, 2006 06:02
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Inthemix - 6/8/2006 10:33 PM
*grumble, grumble*
Two years now and Denver's only nibbled at the bait at the end of my line. Been nearly a month since I applied for the latest position with no contact. I'm hoping that they're just too busy to answer emails.
Denver? Listen buddy, if you're interested in a CEV job you'll need to apply to Houston. It doesn't matter WHO wins the CEV contract (LM or NG/BA), most of the CEV jobs will be in Houston.
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#24 by vt_hokie on 08 Aug, 2006 06:48
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Propforce - 8/8/2006 1:49 AM
Denver? Listen buddy, if you're interested in a CEV job you'll need to apply to Houston. It doesn't matter WHO wins the CEV contract (LM or NG/BA), most of the CEV jobs will be in Houston.
If only they hadn't killed the Texas TGV! I don't think I could live in a state that lacks high speed trains!
Seriously, CEV won't actually be manufactured there, will it? I'm surprised to read that the majority of CEV jobs will be in Houston. -
#25 by Chris Bergin on 08 Aug, 2006 14:03
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Propforce - 6/8/2006 5:53 PM
QuoteGeneric Username - 4/8/2006 8:56 PM
What would be nice is if Lockheed would sic the Skunk Works on the second stage. Not only get the weight down, but make it recoverable... do like SASSTO and work on making it into a complete launch vehicle in it's own right.... drooooollll.........
Skunk Works people don't know much about how to design a launch vehicle, just look at the X-33.
You'll need the Denver people to do the job.
An excuse to post an image of the X-33 being built at the Skunkworks. Used to go to an internet cafe after school to see this being built via the webcam...........little was I to know
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#26 by Inthemix on 09 Aug, 2006 06:22
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Propforce - 7/8/2006 10:49 PM
Denver? Listen buddy, if you're interested in a CEV job you'll need to apply to Houston. It doesn't matter WHO wins the CEV contract (LM or NG/BA), most of the CEV jobs will be in Houston.
Oh, no question that the majority of the jobs are in Houston. Great, now you've got me curious about the actual numbers and I have to find out.
Okay, as of 8/8/2006 10:59PM Pacific, Lockheed's CEV job openings are:
Any Job, CEV keyword, & Texas @ 144
Any Job, CEV keyword, & Colorado @ 172
Total: CEV keyword alone @ 331 (some LA and FL jobs make the remainder)
That didn't quite turn out the way I thought, or how you'd suggested. Maybe they're finding it easier to fill the TX jobs? Maybe has more skilled unemployed?
I see a lot of the TX jobs are with the Space Operations company and offer no relocation allowance. The Space Systems Company are offering negotiable relocation. So, that doesn't quite make sense to me. Personally, I'd prefer Denver over Houston, but maybe I'm in the minority. Guess its just who and where you want to work for. -
#27 by Inthemix on 09 Aug, 2006 06:47
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Okay, now I'm waaaay too curious. Decided to do Northrop and Boeing, too.
Northrop: 116 CEV positions.
CA: 82
TX: 33
Boeing: 52 CEV positions.
AL: 3
TX: 49
Combined: 168, 82 in TX, 85 elsewhere.
So, looks like Boeing would be big in TX, should that team win, but they'll be balanced out by NG.
Very interesting. Was all the talk about all the work to be done in Texas just lip service? Only thing I can think of is that they've filled a lot more Texas positions (both teams, mind you) and that's why the numbers don't look right.
Not that it really matters at all. -
#28 by Propforce on 09 Aug, 2006 17:39
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Inthemix - 8/8/2006 11:09 PM
Okay, as of 8/8/2006 10:59PM Pacific, Lockheed's CEV job openings are:
Any Job, CEV keyword, & Texas @ 144
Any Job, CEV keyword, & Colorado @ 172
Total: CEV keyword alone @ 331 (some LA and FL jobs make the remainder)
That didn't quite turn out the way I thought, or how you'd suggested. Maybe they're finding it easier to fill the TX jobs? Maybe has more skilled unemployed?
I see a lot of the TX jobs are with the Space Operations company and offer no relocation allowance. The Space Systems Company are offering negotiable relocation. So, that doesn't quite make sense to me. Personally, I'd prefer Denver over Houston, but maybe I'm in the minority. Guess its just who and where you want to work for.
This is a snap shot in time with the current open requisitions. I'd suspect all req's have a "contingent upon contract award..." blah blah, etc. as well. The 'rumor' I've heard is there will be approx. 1,000 openings for CEV in Houston, which mostly will be Program/ Project management, systems engineering,... etc. Many will transfer from existing shuttle support contract to CEV, or move from one contractor to the CEV winning contractor (LM, NG, etc.), but if you can get in early maybe you'll get to pick your job.
Personally, if I have to choose, I'd choose Denver over Houston myself unless I have trouble breathing low density air or paying heating bill in the winter time...
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#29 by Inthemix on 10 Aug, 2006 05:23
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Propforce - 9/8/2006 10:26 AM
This is a snap shot in time with the current open requisitions. I'd suspect all req's have a "contingent upon contract award..." blah blah, etc. as well. The 'rumor' I've heard is there will be approx. 1,000 openings for CEV in Houston, which mostly will be Program/ Project management, systems engineering,... etc. Many will transfer from existing shuttle support contract to CEV, or move from one contractor to the CEV winning contractor (LM, NG, etc.), but if you can get in early maybe you'll get to pick your job.
Oh, they are all "contingent" and I understood about it being a snapshot. I suppose they might try for the most critical spots first, thus expending only the minimum amount before one team gets the green light, which would explain the low number of positions currently open.
And as for the transfer, wouldn't that be transferring from United Space Alliance (or whatever it is)? I was under the impression that it was a company seperate from either team. Maybe to the winner goes the spoils? -
#30 by Jim on 10 Aug, 2006 11:07
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One would have to quit USA to be a member of LM or NG CEV team
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#31 by Jim on 10 Aug, 2006 11:16
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Inthemix - 9/8/2006 2:09 AM
I see a lot of the TX jobs are with the Space Operations company and offer no relocation allowance. The Space Systems Company are offering negotiable relocation.
Space Systems Company is a real division of LM. Space Operations Company is a virual company (division)that only provides people, it has no assets or facilities or R&D. This is so the overhead that it charges is lower than the parent company. Space Operations only exists to serve the contract.
Many other corps have done this: MDTCO, RSOC, LSOC (old one), LTOC. These "companies" just supply people. -
#32 by Framis on 12 Aug, 2006 00:48
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A couple of points:
- counting requisitions gets you only part of the picture. One requisition (i.e. Engineer 2) might be for 1 job or for 5 jobs or 50 jobs.
- there are lots of jobs at the subs, only a few of which have shown up yet.
- the small business quotas will also need to be filled.
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#33 by pierogoletto on 13 Aug, 2006 19:24
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Wish you all the best
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#34 by publiusr on 18 Aug, 2006 20:13
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Good luck!
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#35 by AtomicDog on 31 Aug, 2006 20:58
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Congratulations!
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#36 by spacedreams on 31 Aug, 2006 21:41
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Jim - 10/8/2006 3:54 AM One would have to quit USA to be a member of LM or NG CEV team
Actually, it is technically a transfer between USA and either Boeing or Lockheed. I know a girl from here who just moved from USA out to Boeing in California and she said it was handled as a transfer and she got to keep her seniority, vacation, vesting, everything. In fact most of the USA folks around here now are talking about looking into moving to mother Lockheed to get the %&^%^$*%$ out of Houston. They seem to be very excited! In fact, I think I may be seriously looking that way as well.
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#37 by Jim on 31 Aug, 2006 23:47
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spacedreams - 31/8/2006 5:28 PM
'QuoteJim - 10/8/2006 3:54 AM One would have to quit USA to be a member of LM or NG CEV team
Actually, it is technically a transfer between USA and either Boeing or Lockheed. I know a girl from here who just moved from USA out to Boeing in California and she said it was handled as a transfer and she got to keep her seniority, vacation, vesting, everything. In fact most of the USA folks around here now are talking about looking into moving to mother Lockheed to get the %&^%^$*%$ out of Houston. They seem to be very excited! In fact, I think I may be seriously looking that way as well.
Not always. ULA is being treated differently also
