Author Topic: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities  (Read 217187 times)

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #400 on: 01/10/2017 06:37 AM »
Quote
Following space flight operations, the Dragon capsule would splashdown off the coast of Florida where vehicle recovery would occur. The Dragon capsule would be transported back to the processing facility for post-flight processing and refurbishment.

So they're planning to land Dragon off the coast of FL instead of in the Pacific? Interesting.

I suspect that this relates to crewed Dragon2 (but not Dragon1).
My understanding is that all dragon 2 flights would land propulsively.  So an ocean recovery means dragon 1.

Edit: all *cargo* dragon 2 are propulsive. So this is either crewed dragon 2 or else dragon 1.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41016.msg1624908.msg#1624908
« Last Edit: 01/10/2017 06:46 AM by cscott »

Offline ATPTourFan

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #401 on: 01/10/2017 02:02 PM »
Landing ITS back on the launch mount will probably entail interim steps before it works.
What will those steps look like?
Are scale tests with F9 family possible? Maybe an F9 gets it legs removed and then it attempts to land in a similar launch/land mount cradle, set up on the landing pads? This way the launch pad is sparred the inevitable early fails.

The higher degree of precision to enable an ITS booster landing inside the launch mount comes from (if I remember correctly):
- additional cold gas thrusters near the bottom of the booster
- improved raptor throttling (or effective throttling by using combinations of engines to achieve slower, controlled landing)
- 3 alignment fins near engines to mate with the launch mount

I would guess that they could create a scaled ITS that has these features for testing of this new landing technique.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #402 on: 01/10/2017 02:11 PM »
Landing ITS back on the launch mount will probably entail interim steps before it works.
What will those steps look like?
Are scale tests with F9 family possible? Maybe an F9 gets it legs removed and then it attempts to land in a similar launch/land mount cradle, set up on the landing pads? This way the launch pad is sparred the inevitable early fails.

The higher degree of precision to enable an ITS booster landing inside the launch mount comes from (if I remember correctly):
- additional cold gas thrusters near the bottom of the booster
- improved raptor throttling (or effective throttling by using combinations of engines to achieve slower, controlled landing)
- 3 alignment fins near engines to mate with the launch mount

I would guess that they could create a scaled ITS that has these features for testing of this new landing technique.

There is a lot more required that just that
« Last Edit: 01/10/2017 02:11 PM by Jim »

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #403 on: 01/10/2017 02:29 PM »
ITS is off topic for this thread.
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #404 on: 01/10/2017 03:29 PM »
ITS is off topic for this thread.

Agreed, any pending LZ-1 modifications are most certainly not related to ITS.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #405 on: 01/11/2017 05:55 PM »


Ask and Ye shall receive!  I just received a message from the environmental officer at Patrick.  The new EA (EIS) is finally out!!!

Tons of delicious trainspotting goodies. Start reading and discussing!

I'll give this a standalone thread, but great work by Sghill on passing on that document - and now written up as an article by Chris Gebhardt, with the addition of some sexy L2 renders from Nathan Koga  8)

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/01/spacex-air-force-landing-pads-dragon-lz-1/

Offline Kansan52

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #406 on: 02/20/2017 08:50 PM »
The drone video of the CRS-10 S1 landing doesn't seem to show any work started on the additional landing pads.

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #407 on: 02/27/2017 03:30 PM »
Has anyone seen activity over there regarding clearing the brush for the extra pads for the RTLS of the Boosters from FH??

Visually, nothing yet. You could see all around LZ-1 in the drone and booster landing footage from last week, and nothing had been done.

I should think they'd want pad 40 working again before worrying about LZ-1.
« Last Edit: 02/27/2017 03:32 PM by sghill »
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #408 on: 02/27/2017 03:53 PM »
Folks are worried about getting into Scrub Jay nesting season, which starts in March.  Ground clearing can't be done during that time, and the worriers seem to be concerned that SpaceX can't get the secondary pads built for falcon heavy in time if they wait until afterward.
« Last Edit: 02/27/2017 03:53 PM by cscott »

Offline MarekCyzio

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #409 on: 02/27/2017 04:40 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Offline mme

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #410 on: 02/27/2017 04:50 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)
What is the long pole for the pads?  How much soil preparation is required?  It seems to me one option is to just finish the pads and then launch FH.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #411 on: 02/27/2017 05:57 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #412 on: 02/27/2017 06:43 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

Was there a gravel ring planned for the new pads?
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #413 on: 02/27/2017 08:24 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

Was there a gravel ring planned for the new pads?

A much smaller gravel ring was planned.

Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #414 on: 02/27/2017 08:26 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

Was there a gravel ring planned for the new pads?

A much smaller gravel ring was planned.
K, so that is option #4.  Enlarge current pad into Mickey Mouse shape
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #415 on: 02/27/2017 09:16 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

Was there a gravel ring planned for the new pads?

A much smaller gravel ring was planned.
K, so that is option #4.  Enlarge current pad into Mickey Mouse shape

And have Disney pay for it!

Offline Lars-J

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #416 on: 02/27/2017 09:17 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

I didn't realize that the outer edge of the circle was gravel, but yes, that's exactly what I meant. Adding concrete out to the edge.

Offline Wolfram66

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #417 on: 02/27/2017 09:45 PM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

I didn't realize that the outer edge of the circle was gravel, but yes, that's exactly what I meant. Adding concrete out to the edge.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35480.msg1402386#msg1402386

I do not believe there is any "Concrete" poured at all. The landing area and outer ring are crushed recycled concrete aka AgSlag . Ground AgSlag is dumped,spread ,packed, vibrated, Watered and Rolled. The inner pad area that looks like brushed concrete pavement is just the AgSlag that has been scarified (ground flat and smooth) and re-watered. Much like grooming of snow done on ski slopes. This is much easier to repair and maintain between landings as all you need to do is grind the area flat and add a little more agSlag water and Roll/smooth. Forms it's own caliche...like desert pavement The outer Ring is just left un-groomed.   and no Gravel...Gravel + M1-D Rocket engine = 360 degree shotgun blast of rocks
« Last Edit: 02/27/2017 10:16 PM by Wolfram66 »

Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #418 on: 02/28/2017 02:42 AM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

I didn't realize that the outer edge of the circle was gravel, but yes, that's exactly what I meant. Adding concrete out to the edge.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35480.msg1402386#msg1402386

I do not believe there is any "Concrete" poured at all. The landing area and outer ring are crushed recycled concrete aka AgSlag . Ground AgSlag is dumped,spread ,packed, vibrated, Watered and Rolled. The inner pad area that looks like brushed concrete pavement is just the AgSlag that has been scarified (ground flat and smooth) and re-watered. Much like grooming of snow done on ski slopes. This is much easier to repair and maintain between landings as all you need to do is grind the area flat and add a little more agSlag water and Roll/smooth. Forms it's own caliche...like desert pavement The outer Ring is just left un-groomed.   and no Gravel...Gravel + M1-D Rocket engine = 360 degree shotgun blast of rocks
I think we call it base rock here, and I agree that's what is on the outer ring.  However, the exhaust IMO will fragment the baserock and remove it.  I think it's concrete there.  The outer ring may function as a contamination barrier in case of a crash.
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Offline Wolfram66

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #419 on: 02/28/2017 03:19 AM »
Scrub Jay nesting season starts in 2 days so unless clearing is already in progress, SpaceX will have to wait with any groundwork until July 1st.

Possible options:
- one core goes to waste
- SpaceX brings JRTI to Port Canaveral and all Vandenberg launches are RTLS until LZ-1 is expanded
- SpaceX learns how to land one core on top of the other ;)

Another option... SpaceX is gaining more confidence in the landing accuracy. That landing pad could actually support 2 (or even 3) cores landing, if they land closer to the edge. They might have strengthen the outer areas for that, though.

Or, add concrete where the current gravel ring is.

I didn't realize that the outer edge of the circle was gravel, but yes, that's exactly what I meant. Adding concrete out to the edge.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35480.msg1402386#msg1402386

I do not believe there is any "Concrete" poured at all. The landing area and outer ring are crushed recycled concrete aka AgSlag . Ground AgSlag is dumped,spread ,packed, vibrated, Watered and Rolled. The inner pad area that looks like brushed concrete pavement is just the AgSlag that has been scarified (ground flat and smooth) and re-watered. Much like grooming of snow done on ski slopes. This is much easier to repair and maintain between landings as all you need to do is grind the area flat and add a little more agSlag water and Roll/smooth. Forms it's own caliche...like desert pavement The outer Ring is just left un-groomed.   and no Gravel...Gravel + M1-D Rocket engine = 360 degree shotgun blast of rocks
I think we call it base rock here, and I agree that's what is on the outer ring.  However, the exhaust IMO will fragment the baserock and remove it.  I think it's concrete there.  The outer ring may function as a contamination barrier in case of a crash.

Here's the FONSI filed with FAA
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/environmental/nepa_docs/review/launch/media/20151201_FAA_FONSI_for_F9_RTLS_at_LC-1.pdf

And a great view provided by USLaunchReport.com on their YouTube channel.

« Last Edit: 02/28/2017 03:31 AM by Wolfram66 »

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