Author Topic: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities  (Read 185145 times)

Online abaddon

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #360 on: 05/24/2016 08:00 PM »
Quote
USAF: SpaceX's landing complex at the Cape Canaveral Spaceport is a multi-user facility...not only for Falcon-9. #SpaceCongress2016

https://twitter.com/flspacereport/status/735157372809838592
Well, that's interesting.  Wonder if that was part of the lease agreement, and/or if the USAF contributed any money to the construction of the pad.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #361 on: 05/24/2016 08:00 PM »
Quote
USAF: SpaceX's landing complex at the Cape Canaveral Spaceport is a multi-user facility...not only for Falcon-9. #SpaceCongress2016

https://twitter.com/flspacereport/status/735157372809838592

Multi-user or multi-vehicle? I think we might need some clarification on that... what other users (companies) would be landing there?

I would imagine that statement is pretty standard.  That the entire range supports multiple users, whether they exist today or not.

And it may also mean that what the USAF does won't be customized just for one user.  Which is a good thing, since in this case SpaceX is being a pathfinder for many capabilities, and I'm sure we all hope others will follow.  And when they do, the USAF will be ready to support them too.

My $0.02

Who paid for the mods to the landing complex? Will SpaceX get to collect landing fees? Who decides who gets to land if there are two incoming vehicles arriving in close order (with their surface equipment waiting)

This kind of seems like a rehash of Blue's attempt to prevent SpaceX from getting exclusive use of 39A ... We aren't privy to the contract details  but I can't imagine SpaceX voluntarily paying for mods and then not being able to control who lands there.

Or are we talking about range assets which support landings, rather than the actual pad and equipment itself?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #362 on: 05/24/2016 08:43 PM »

ho paid for the mods to the landing complex? Will SpaceX get to collect landing fees? Who decides who gets to land if there are two incoming vehicles arriving in close order (with their surface equipment waiting)

This kind of seems like a rehash of Blue's attempt to prevent SpaceX from getting exclusive use of 39A ... We aren't privy to the contract details  but I can't imagine SpaceX voluntarily paying for mods and then not being able to control who lands there.

Or are we talking about range assets which support landings, rather than the actual pad and equipment itself?

Spacex got a pad and payload processing facility from the USAF for free.   
The USAF owns the land. 

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #363 on: 05/24/2016 09:10 PM »
So Jim, what is your opinion of what that tweet meant? Range assets (other than the pad) like tracking radars, etc?  or the pad (and whatever equipment SpaceX has or might in future deploy there) itself?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #364 on: 05/25/2016 01:58 PM »
So Jim, what is your opinion of what that tweet meant? Range assets (other than the pad) like tracking radars, etc?  or the pad (and whatever equipment SpaceX has or might in future deploy there) itself?

The concrete landing pad and maybe the firex emplacements.

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #365 on: 07/19/2016 11:43 AM »
From the Orlando Sentinel this morning...

SpaceX seeks approval for two additional landing pads on Space Coast
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-spacex-landing-pads-space-coast-20160718-story.html

"...The new landing areas would be built within that [LZ-1] landing zone."

I have sent a message to the PA officer asking for an electronic copy of the permissions application they submitted. There is a public comment period that ends in August. I will post it here if she responds.

« Last Edit: 07/19/2016 12:04 PM by sghill »
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline southshore26

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #366 on: 07/19/2016 12:01 PM »
From the Orlando Sentinel this morning...

SpaceX seeks approval for two additional landing pads on Space Coast
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-spacex-landing-pads-space-coast-20160718-story.html

"...The new landing areas would be built within that [LZ-1] landing zone."

I have sent a message to the PA officer asking for an electronic copy of the permissions application they submitted. There is a public comment period that ends in August. I will post it here if she responds.

There is already an entire thread dedicated to this subject.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40667.0

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #367 on: 07/19/2016 12:05 PM »
From the Orlando Sentinel this morning...

SpaceX seeks approval for two additional landing pads on Space Coast
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-spacex-landing-pads-space-coast-20160718-story.html

"...The new landing areas would be built within that [LZ-1] landing zone."

I have sent a message to the PA officer asking for an electronic copy of the permissions application they submitted. There is a public comment period that ends in August. I will post it here if she responds.

There is already an entire thread dedicated to this subject.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40667.0

The public notice that I have attached answers a ton of previous questions we have posed on this thread.

But thank you for the cross post and the link.

As an update from my earlier post, the public affairs officer at Patrick Air Force Base tells me that SpaceX is developing a new environmental assessment document for the proposed plan, but that the document is not finished and not available at this time.
« Last Edit: 07/19/2016 04:43 PM by sghill »
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline joek

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #368 on: 07/21/2016 09:15 PM »
Not sure where to put it, but this thread seems more appropriate than others...

SpaceX CRS launch license LLS 14-087 Rev 2 was updated 15-Jul and posted today by the FAA.  The only change is liability insurance requirement increase from $45M to $185M if the flight includes first stage return to launch site.  Other insurance requirements remain unchanged.

The other launch license for GEO sat launches, LLS 14-090 Rev 2, is unchanged; presumably because none of those are expected to involve RTLS.

Online Herb Schaltegger

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #369 on: 07/21/2016 11:01 PM »
Not sure where to put it, but this thread seems more appropriate than others...

SpaceX CRS launch license LLS 14-087 Rev 2 was updated 15-Jul and posted today by the FAA.  The only change is liability insurance requirement increase from $45M to $185M if the flight includes first stage return to launch site.  Other insurance requirements remain unchanged.

The other launch license for GEO sat launches, LLS 14-090 Rev 2, is unchanged; presumably because none of those are expected to involve RTLS.

And to put that into perspective (and unless it's changed in the last couple years), the US DOT insurance minimum-limits requirement for an 18-wheel tractor/semi-trailer carrying non-hazardous cargo is only $750K. So that's a LOT of insurance for a vanishingly-small risk of injury, but someowhat higher risk of property damage to very specialized facilities.
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #370 on: 07/23/2016 07:36 PM »
Quote
USAF: SpaceX's landing complex at the Cape Canaveral Spaceport is a multi-user facility...not only for Falcon-9. #SpaceCongress2016

https://twitter.com/flspacereport/status/735157372809838592

Multi-user or multi-vehicle? I think we might need some clarification on that... what other users (companies) would be landing there?

I would imagine that statement is pretty standard.  That the entire range supports multiple users, whether they exist today or not.

And it may also mean that what the USAF does won't be customized just for one user.  Which is a good thing, since in this case SpaceX is being a pathfinder for many capabilities, and I'm sure we all hope others will follow.  And when they do, the USAF will be ready to support them too.

My $0.02

Who paid for the mods to the landing complex? Will SpaceX get to collect landing fees? Who decides who gets to land if there are two incoming vehicles arriving in close order (with their surface equipment waiting)

This kind of seems like a rehash of Blue's attempt to prevent SpaceX from getting exclusive use of 39A ... We aren't privy to the contract details  but I can't imagine SpaceX voluntarily paying for mods and then not being able to control who lands there.

Or are we talking about range assets which support landings, rather than the actual pad and equipment itself?

Suggest a different overall meaning. They want to treat the vertical landing facility like an runway/airport. With multiple vehicles coming and going on the same facility, instead of one for each provider. Likely they don't want to spread risk over a wider area and have to deconflict operations. So they don't want dedicated facilities/equipment that locks out the other providers. All happens in one spot.

Likely there's still one operator, like an FBO. That's SX. Would imagine that charging for use of facilities within the landing zone/complex/whatever,  just like services at a commercially run airport, is how the operator gets a ROI for having put it in, in the first place. And that the operator has to "play nice" with the other tenants.

Also, if capacity becomes limited, the operator accommodates additional use by expansion, and the AF again has only one organization to deal with, not N.

As to the range, does SX want to run that? There has been talk of privatizing, which would lower costs and possibly increase capabilities. There's a lot involved in taking over from the AF much of this, including insurance, and SX will be running its own Texas operation, which might be a kind of precident. But I'm not sure they have the skills or attention span for "watching the grass grow". I'd guess that they'd sub out to a firm that does manage like assets, sort of in the same way the recovery barges are dealt with.

And this would be all done, if done, under the lease agreement to the AF who could yank the whole thing back. There are few that might be able to desire or have the capability to handle this.

Online Comga

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #371 on: 08/22/2016 06:02 PM »
As of July 4, the latest posted image, the TerraServer shows no progress on a second landing zone.
However, some time between May 16 and July 4 SpaceX has repainted the X on LZ-1.
It is not obvious why, but it looks great. ??? 
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline The_Ronin

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #372 on: 08/23/2016 05:55 PM »
Same reason they repaint OCISLY after every landing...  looks matter to Elon!

Offline mfck

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #373 on: 08/23/2016 06:17 PM »


As of July 4, the latest posted image, the TerraServer shows no progress on a second landing zone.
However, some time between May 16 and July 4 SpaceX has repainted the X on LZ-1.
It is not obvious why, but it looks great. ???

It would seem more practical to paint the X much bigger. That way you don't have to repaint after every landing with the bonus of shot-grouping (great for bingo:)


Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #374 on: 08/23/2016 10:45 PM »
As of July 4, the latest posted image, the TerraServer shows no progress on a second landing zone.
However, some time between May 16 and July 4 SpaceX has repainted the X on LZ-1.
It is not obvious why, but it looks great. ???

It would seem more practical to paint the X much bigger. That way you don't have to repaint after every landing with the bonus of shot-grouping (great for bingo:)

Maybe they forgot to use heat-resistant paint.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline mfck

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #375 on: 08/27/2016 10:04 AM »
As of July 4, the latest posted image, the TerraServer shows no progress on a second landing zone.
However, some time between May 16 and July 4 SpaceX has repainted the X on LZ-1.
It is not obvious why, but it looks great. ???

It would seem more practical to paint the X much bigger. That way you don't have to repaint after every landing with the bonus of shot-grouping (great for bingo:)

Maybe they forgot to use heat-resistant paint.
Nah... It was a mix between metric and imperial that caused the size discrepancy

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #376 on: 10/25/2016 03:14 PM »
Manager of Falcon Launch Fleet Operations Trip Harriss (@SpaceXTrip) has new LZ-1 images via Apple Maps

https://twitter.com/SpaceXTrip/status/790728268534218752

Boosted the saturation a bit over his images
« Last Edit: 10/25/2016 03:16 PM by docmordrid »
DM

Online Comga

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #377 on: 10/25/2016 07:23 PM »
A search on the TerraServer and Google Maps now both show old images from before the construction of LZ-1.

They used to show the landing pad.  (See up-thread)
What's going on?
« Last Edit: 10/25/2016 07:24 PM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Raul

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #378 on: 10/26/2016 06:08 AM »
Manager of Falcon Launch Fleet Operations Trip Harriss (@SpaceXTrip) has new LZ-1 images via Apple Maps

https://twitter.com/SpaceXTrip/status/790728268534218752

However these "new" images are still several months old - without hangar near the booster stand.

LZ-1 landing pad as of October 8th, 2016 in Hurricane Matthew Imagery.
« Last Edit: 10/26/2016 07:26 AM by Raul »

Online Kansan52

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #379 on: 11/14/2016 09:09 PM »
That's not a hanger. It's the S.W.I.F.T (Spray Wash of Incoming Falcon full Thrust)!! ;)

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