Author Topic: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities  (Read 202785 times)

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #180 on: 10/13/2015 05:29 PM »
There is a newer image on TerraServer dated July 10.
A faint grid is evident on the nearly finished circle.  (14 across the 85 m circle => 6 m squares)
There is no logo visible, but the image is still from before the images of Sept 5.

edit:  Those are not Landsat images from Sept 5.
« Last Edit: 10/13/2015 10:23 PM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Wonger

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #181 on: 10/13/2015 08:16 PM »

Has any work been done on LC-13 to facilitate the landing?
They cant land on any of the surfaces that appear in public mapping programs like Google Maps or Bing Maps, can they?
Will we have "eyes on the pad" if they do some ground preparation?

Yes.  They have been clearing land and leveling it.  Haven't seen if they are using any type of concrete or asphalt.  They have some trailers out there.

There is a newer image on TerraServer dated July 10.
A faint grid is evident on the nearly finished circle.  (14 across the 85 m circle => 6 m squares)
There is no logo visible, but the image is still from before the Landsat images of Sept 5.


I'm wondering about the grid.  If the pad is concrete, could these be heat expansion joint similar to the ones they put on highways?


edit: removed hyperlinks
« Last Edit: 10/15/2015 12:33 AM by Wonger »

Offline mvpel

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #182 on: 10/13/2015 08:28 PM »
I'm wondering about the grid.  If the pad is concrete, could these be heat expansion joint similar to the ones they put on highways?

A 20' x 20' x 8" thick slab (6mx6mx20cm is just about 10 cubic yards of concrete, which is about the capacity of one ready-mix concrete delivery truck. Pour, screed, float, and on to the next square when the next truck shows up? That's what it looks like to me.

Concrete calculator: http://www.concrete-equipment-supply.com/materials_calc.html

Concrete control joint information: http://www.cement.org/for-concrete-books-learning/concrete-technology/concrete-construction/contraction-control-joints-in-concrete-flatwork

The joint spacing table does show that the proper control joint spacing for an 200mm slab thickness, with > 19mm aggregate maximum size, is 6m, so that fits nicely.
« Last Edit: 10/13/2015 08:36 PM by mvpel »
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Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #183 on: 10/13/2015 11:41 PM »
I'm wondering about the grid.  If the pad is concrete, could these be heat expansion joint similar to the ones they put on highways?

A 20' x 20' x 8" thick slab (6mx6mx20cm is just about 10 cubic yards of concrete, which is about the capacity of one ready-mix concrete delivery truck. Pour, screed, float, and on to the next square when the next truck shows up? That's what it looks like to me.

Concrete calculator: http://www.concrete-equipment-supply.com/materials_calc.html

Concrete control joint information: http://www.cement.org/for-concrete-books-learning/concrete-technology/concrete-construction/contraction-control-joints-in-concrete-flatwork

The joint spacing table does show that the proper control joint spacing for an 200mm slab thickness, with > 19mm aggregate maximum size, is 6m, so that fits nicely.

FWIW, concrete paving slabs used for runway, taxiway and ramp area construction at commercial airports tend to be the same dimensions (6m x 6m) as those you listed.. even though somewhat thicker depending upon application and what kind of aircraft will be parked on it.
 
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #184 on: 10/14/2015 11:15 PM »
There is a newer image on TerraServer dated July 10.
A faint grid is evident on the nearly finished circle.  (14 across the 85 m circle => 6 m squares)
There is no logo visible, but the image is still from before the images of Sept 5.

edit:  Those are not Landsat images from Sept 5.

Please note that, with the link to the Sept. 5th images, you seem to be linking to L2 board posts in the general forum, which I think is a no-no...
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline OnWithTheShow

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #185 on: 10/15/2015 02:51 AM »
Last I checked NSF didnt own Terraserver so any of us can go to their site and look at imagery... To help out the OP here is a link directly to Terraserver of a wider shot:

http://bit.ly/1RbQqTq

I wonder if they removed enough crawler way stone from inside 39a to fill in the crash pad area around the paved pad.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2015 03:08 AM by OnWithTheShow »

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #186 on: 10/15/2015 08:01 PM »
There is a newer image on TerraServer dated July 10.
A faint grid is evident on the nearly finished circle.  (14 across the 85 m circle => 6 m squares)
There is no logo visible, but the image is still from before the images of Sept 5.

edit:  Those are not Landsat images from Sept 5.

Please note that, with the link to the Sept. 5th images, you seem to be linking to L2 board posts in the general forum, which I think is a no-no...

It's ok.  Non-L2 members can't view the link if they try to click through.

BTW, I think they added the grid so NSF members can play landing Bingo more easily.
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #187 on: 10/16/2015 03:31 AM »
since we have some spare time here at the forum, should we go ahead and start working on a numbering system for the squares? since we're dealing with a circle and rows are hard to see, how about we do it like an x and y axis. and the center is 0,0? negative to the south and west?

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #188 on: 10/16/2015 03:57 AM »
There is a newer image on TerraServer dated July 10.
A faint grid is evident on the nearly finished circle.  (14 across the 85 m circle => 6 m squares)
There is no logo visible, but the image is still from before the images of Sept 5.

edit:  Those are not Landsat images from Sept 5.

Please note that, with the link to the Sept. 5th images, you seem to be linking to L2 board posts in the general forum, which I think is a no-no...

It's ok.  Non-L2 members can't view the link if they try to click through.

BTW, I think they added the grid so NSF members can play landing Bingo more easily.

We can stop discussing the L2 vs not-L2 because it was Chris Bergin's decision.

However, that last comment is wonderful, although these grids are much larger, 6 meters vs 2.5 meters or about 5.5 times the area. There will be a real rush for the handful within the equivalent of the yellow circle.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline eriblo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #189 on: 10/16/2015 03:19 PM »
[...]
Begs the question why the squares are there to begin with though! 

I think they may be removable reinforced concrete panels in case of damage to one or several of them when a booster craters.  That way, they don't have to repave the whole thing and simple pot hole repairs would be inappropriate for this application (the patch might dislodge and fly up from the descent blast and damage the booster).

I bet if you got up close to one, you'd see industrial strength flush fixing anchors at each corner going into a "subfloor" of concrete below the panel.

I guess that is possible, but my bet would be standard concrete slab crack control joints as pointed out by mvpel upthread:
[...]
Concrete control joint information: http://www.cement.org/for-concrete-books-learning/concrete-technology/concrete-construction/contraction-control-joints-in-concrete-flatwork

The joint spacing table does show that the proper control joint spacing for an 200mm slab thickness, with > 19mm aggregate maximum size, is 6m, so that fits nicely.

You will see those on more or less any concrete slab that doesn't explicitly need a smooth surface. For example, check out the "before" images of LC-13 or the grasshopper landing pad in McGregor on google maps :)
« Last Edit: 10/16/2015 03:26 PM by eriblo »

Online acsawdey

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #190 on: 10/16/2015 03:30 PM »
I think they may be removable reinforced concrete panels in case of damage to one or several of them when a booster craters.  That way, they don't have to repave the whole thing and simple pot hole repairs would be inappropriate for this application (the patch might dislodge and fly up from the descent blast and damage the booster).

I bet if you got up close to one, you'd see industrial strength flush fixing anchors at each corner going into a "subfloor" of concrete below the panel.

I tend to think they won't bother with that until they get to a launch cadence that is significantly faster than "every 2 weeks at best".

Around here you see highway crews do concrete repair in just a few days, which includes:
* cut and remove damaged concrete
* drill into the side of the good concrete and install rebar to join it to the new section
* arrange rebar for the replacement section
* pour and surface the new section.
* wait a couple days to cure and then traffic resumes using the lane

Also I'm not sure that even a crashing F9 S1 would do much damage. It didn't do more than scorch the paint on JRTI's deck.

If you bolt anything to the concrete, it'll be plates comparable to the deck of an ASDS. Assuming $500/ton cost of steel, 2" plate to cover one of those 20m^2 sections is something like $90k.

Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #191 on: 10/18/2015 10:44 PM »
If you bolt anything to the concrete, it'll be plates comparable to the deck of an ASDS. Assuming $500/ton cost of steel, 2" plate to cover one of those 20m^2 sections is something like $90k.

Personally, I can't see any benefit in doing that since dealing with thermal expansion/buckling of the plate (even just from the hot sun) and FOD from loose fastenings wouldn't be worth the trouble given that, as you point out, concrete repair (and even replacement of an entire panel if required) is really no big deal.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #192 on: 11/14/2015 03:44 AM »
There is a newer image on TerraServer dated July 10.
A faint grid is evident on the nearly finished circle.  (14 across the 85 m circle => 6 m squares)
There is no logo visible, but the image is still from before the images of Sept 5.

A new August 11 image on TerraServer still shows the grid and no SpaceX logo.
These seem to come about one per month.  Perhaps the December update will show a logo from September.

edit: More accurate link to zoomed in image.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2015 08:14 PM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline DatUser14

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #193 on: 12/04/2015 10:56 PM »
Never mind, this was a bad idea :(
« Last Edit: 12/04/2015 11:02 PM by DatUser14 »
Where can I apply for SpaceX fanboy?.

Offline joek

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #194 on: 12/05/2015 01:15 AM »
This is it looks like relative to ASDS (assuming ASDS 300'x170', give or take a bit)....
edit: The TerraServer image is copyrighted; removed and replaced with EIA image.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2015 05:54 PM by joek »

Offline DatUser14

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #195 on: 12/07/2015 02:45 PM »
Do you think landing pads will get names from the culture series? My suggestion is "Flexible demeanor" from Consider Phleblas.
Where can I apply for SpaceX fanboy?.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #196 on: 12/07/2015 03:50 PM »
I think they may be removable reinforced concrete panels in case of damage to one or several of them when a booster craters.  That way, they don't have to repave the whole thing and simple pot hole repairs would be inappropriate for this application (the patch might dislodge and fly up from the descent blast and damage the booster).

I bet if you got up close to one, you'd see industrial strength flush fixing anchors at each corner going into a "subfloor" of concrete below the panel.

I tend to think they won't bother with that until they get to a launch cadence that is significantly faster than "every 2 weeks at best".

Around here you see highway crews do concrete repair in just a few days, which includes:
* cut and remove damaged concrete
* drill into the side of the good concrete and install rebar to join it to the new section
* arrange rebar for the replacement section
* pour and surface the new section.
* wait a couple days to cure and then traffic resumes using the lane

Also I'm not sure that even a crashing F9 S1 would do much damage. It didn't do more than scorch the paint on JRTI's deck.

If you bolt anything to the concrete, it'll be plates comparable to the deck of an ASDS. Assuming $500/ton cost of steel, 2" plate to cover one of those 20m^2 sections is something like $90k.

They could use a modular block system of concrete that would have "tie downs" embedded into the concrete. They would also double as attachment points for lifting the blocks out when damaged, and replacing them as needed.  The small gaps between each block would act as the equivelent of expansion joints.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2015 03:54 PM by JasonAW3 »
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Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #197 on: 12/08/2015 09:13 PM »
Do you think landing pads will get names from the culture series? My suggestion is "Flexible demeanor" from Consider Phleblas.

I wouldn't think so.. The issue is that, unlike Star Wars, no-one outside the science fiction community has ever heard of the Culture series, so whilst they could get away with it for an ASDS or two as some kind of obscure insider joke, writing ""Flexible Demeanor" in large letters across a permanent landing pad would have the watching world thinking SpX has gone nuts.

EDIT: At least writing something like "No Naked Flames" might be seen for the joke it is.. :)
« Last Edit: 12/08/2015 09:18 PM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #198 on: 12/08/2015 09:28 PM »
Do you think landing pads will get names from the culture series? My suggestion is "Flexible demeanor" from Consider Phleblas.

I wouldn't think so.. The issue is that, unlike Star Wars, no-one outside the science fiction community has ever heard of the Culture series, so whilst they could get away with it for an ASDS or two as some kind of obscure insider joke, writing ""Flexible Demeanor" in large letters across a permanent landing pad would have the watching world thinking SpX has gone nuts.

EDIT: At least writing something like "No Naked Flames" might be seen for the joke it is.. :)

There was worse...

ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #199 on: 12/10/2015 07:07 PM »
What are the environmental remediation steps and timeline in the case that a few tens or hundreds of gallons of kerosene and hydraulic fluid gets scattered about the sandy vegetation?  How long would it take to do the remediation of that?  Would the landing complex or an individual pad there be out of service during that time or could landings still go on (with the contractors obviously removed for the landing)?  What would be done as remediation, removing soil?  Would wells need to be put in to collect deeper fluids?  Would any cleanup of a new spill cascade downward into legal requirements to clean up pre-existing contamination from the 1960s?  What about TEA/B and other contaminants that might be spilled, would there be residue or would it be consumed in any inferno?  And how long would it take to safe pressure vessels and energetic materials before a cleanup of the ground could take place?  In other words, if there is a crash near the landing pad how long would it be before another landing could be attempted there?

What are the chances that SpaceX has some strategy of intentionally depleting any remaining high pressure N, He, and the TEA/B just before landing?

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