Author Topic: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities  (Read 184581 times)

Online Lobo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #120 on: 01/28/2015 05:00 PM »
My thoughts on this-

a) Who woulda thunket that in a cross feed launch the center core would be returning to the launch site?

I'm almost positive that is not a crossfed FH. It's a non crossfed FH, but the central core stages just a little later than the boosters, but not far enough downrange that they can't RTLS.  Probably a somewhat more lofted trajectory to make that easier.  A crossfed FH would have a central core much to fast, high and far down range to RTLS I'm pretty sure.  THat's probably what the barge will be used for after it's job in intial F9R testing.  Or they may just expend the central cores and not worry about them.   The missions that will need that performance are probably not passed powerpoint anywhere yet.
D4H is not crossfed, but it's central core powers down during ascent and it stages several seconds after the outboard bosters.



c)  How does this interact with the EIS that they're trying to get approved?


That's the head scratcher.   After seeing the video, my guess is once they get the original EIS approved and construction started -with- the contingency pads, they'll then do a 2nd EIS showing 3 cores returning in a single launch.   I'm sure if one core returning isn't a problem, neither will 3, and they'll get it approved by the time LC-13 upgrades are all done, so they can start recovering all 3 FH cores right away. 
AS somesaid, this EIS says they don't plan on returning more that one core per launch...but unsaid could be "for the purposes of -this- EIS".


d) What is up with the building / tower at what I presume to be 39A?  They currently aren't allowed to remove the RSS but in this video everything has been changed changed.  Perhaps this is a sign that the video depicts not the near future of something likely to happen in the next 2 years but rather a longer term vision of what they eventually want to achieve with it.

Yes, I think it's showing what they think 39A will -eventually- look like.

I think they've always said they'd remove the RSS.  They just don't need to get it tore down propr to FH launch operations starting.  It's not in the way.  And their assets are busy getting the HIF done and pad mods ready.  They don't even need the FSS to start launching FH. 
So I'm guessing this is "Phase 1".  Just get F9R/FH launching commercial cargo.
"Phase 2" will be adding some sort of MSS so they can vertically integrate USAF/DoD payloads and start competing for those.  RSS may be dismantled at this point, or later.  That doesn't appear depicted in the video though.  Likely it would be right over the flame trench in the retracted position (FH will only use the non ramp side of the flame trench), which the video shows as covered.  Some sort of simple mobile gantry which can lift up a vertical encapsulated PLF and mate it to the top of FH.
"Phase 3" will probably be renovating the FSS itself and adding a crew access arm to it for launching Dv2.  They may have some conceptual plans to enclose the FSS to looks something lie what's shown in the video?

Offline rpapo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #121 on: 01/28/2015 06:23 PM »
It seems to me that the amended EIS wouldn't be all that much different from the original.  After all, instead of having one 20-second burst of noise, you have three of them over the span of (say) ten minutes.  The birds won't be startled much more by the second and third, given how close in time they all will be.

And three times the smoke.
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Offline JamesH

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #122 on: 01/28/2015 07:36 PM »
It's a video, done by an marketing animator on an unknown date about an unknown date, found on the internet.

Clearly it's 100% prescient.

But someone has to tell the animator what to animate.  Someone told them to depict all 3 FH cores landing at LC-13.  He didn't just pull that out of his/her rearend.  And it looks to be an official SpaceX video, so it has as much weight as statements they'd make I would assume.
I assumed this is at least all the things they'd -like- to do.

Animators pull a lots of stuff out of their rear ends. I seriously doubt this video will be representative in 12 months time.  SPaceX change their minds. A lot. This, I think, is a good thing. They learn. But it means statements or video or whatever made 12 months ago are generally not representative - check out the original full reusability video for starters.  That was stuff they wanted (or liked) to do. But we know the second stage won't be recovered. So it clearly wrong in at least one major area.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #123 on: 01/28/2015 07:44 PM »
It's a video, done by an marketing animator on an unknown date about an unknown date, found on the internet.

Clearly it's 100% prescient.

But someone has to tell the animator what to animate.  Someone told them to depict all 3 FH cores landing at LC-13.  He didn't just pull that out of his/her rearend.  And it looks to be an official SpaceX video, so it has as much weight as statements they'd make I would assume.
I assumed this is at least all the things they'd -like- to do.

Animators pull a lots of stuff out of their rear ends. I seriously doubt this video will be representative in 12 months time.  SPaceX change their minds. A lot. This, I think, is a good thing. They learn. But it means statements or video or whatever made 12 months ago are generally not representative - check out the original full reusability video for starters.  That was stuff they wanted (or liked) to do. But we know the second stage won't be recovered. So it clearly wrong in at least one major area.

Sure, but for its time, it is surprisingly accurate.  This movie states that SpaceX intends to land multiple cores in LC-13, in contradiction with the EIS that we've seen.  That's as much as we can deduce.  They intended to, at the time the movie was made.  Also, they decided it was worth releasing, yesterday.
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Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #124 on: 01/28/2015 07:50 PM »
The video was likely created after the EIS, which likely was started more than a year ago

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #125 on: 01/28/2015 08:02 PM »
Yes, I suspect the same, so I'm hoping something evolved with the EIS, or there's another one in the works.

Either way, there is intent to use more than one pad at a time, and I think 4 pads is the right number to build if you plan to return 2 cores on a regular basis.  (1-2 pads may always be down for repair or maintenance).

I think the center (IMO crash) pad is critical, and if it is down the whole complex is down, and so they'll hardly ever use it (even though the movie shows it). 

So more precisely, I think they'll always aim at the center pad, and then always divert to the same pair of side pads until they start showing wear and require resurfacing, then switch over to the other pair, etc.

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Offline moralec

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #126 on: 01/28/2015 08:03 PM »
It's a video, done by an marketing animator on an unknown date about an unknown date, found on the internet.

Clearly it's 100% prescient.

But someone has to tell the animator what to animate.  Someone told them to depict all 3 FH cores landing at LC-13.  He didn't just pull that out of his/her rearend.  And it looks to be an official SpaceX video, so it has as much weight as statements they'd make I would assume.
I assumed this is at least all the things they'd -like- to do.

Animators pull a lots of stuff out of their rear ends. I seriously doubt this video will be representative in 12 months time.  SPaceX change their minds. A lot. This, I think, is a good thing. They learn. But it means statements or video or whatever made 12 months ago are generally not representative - check out the original full reusability video for starters.  That was stuff they wanted (or liked) to do. But we know the second stage won't be recovered. So it clearly wrong in at least one major area.

Sure, but for its time, it is surprisingly accurate.  This movie states that SpaceX intends to land multiple cores in LC-13, in contradiction with the EIS that we've seen.  That's as much as we can deduce.  They intended to, at the time the movie was made.  Also, they decided it was worth releasing, yesterday.

In my view we should take this video only a representation of their current vision (or maybe of some months ago), rather than as an exact description of how the launch and recovery operations are going to work. I think the animator had a lot of information in hand and made an honest effort to incorproate as much details as possible... but the particulars are naturally subject to change.
 
« Last Edit: 01/28/2015 08:05 PM by moralec »

Online Lobo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #127 on: 01/29/2015 04:17 PM »
[Animators pull a lots of stuff out of their rear ends. I seriously doubt this video will be representative in 12 months time.  SPaceX change their minds. A lot.

I don't disagree that this may be outdated in 12 months.  But my point is I think this is their current "vision" for 39A and LC-13.  So they told their animators what to animate.  What needs to be in, and what to not have in.  So I think it's probably a pretty valid look at what they currently have plans for, for them.
That'll change down the road, but it's what they are thinking about right now.  So I think we can put weight to it for the purposes of our rampant speculations.  :-)

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #128 on: 01/29/2015 04:37 PM »
It's a video, done by an marketing animator on an unknown date about an unknown date, found on the internet.

Clearly it's 100% prescient.

But someone has to tell the animator what to animate.  Someone told them to depict all 3 FH cores landing at LC-13.  He didn't just pull that out of his/her rearend.  And it looks to be an official SpaceX video, so it has as much weight as statements they'd make I would assume.
I assumed this is at least all the things they'd -like- to do.

Animators pull a lots of stuff out of their rear ends. I seriously doubt this video will be representative in 12 months time.  SPaceX change their minds. A lot. This, I think, is a good thing. They learn. But it means statements or video or whatever made 12 months ago are generally not representative - check out the original full reusability video for starters.  That was stuff they wanted (or liked) to do. But we know the second stage won't be recovered. So it clearly wrong in at least one major area.

Sure, but for its time, it is surprisingly accurate.  This movie states that SpaceX intends to land multiple cores in LC-13, in contradiction with the EIS that we've seen.  That's as much as we can deduce.  They intended to, at the time the movie was made.  Also, they decided it was worth releasing, yesterday.

In my view we should take this video only a representation of their current vision (or maybe of some months ago), rather than as an exact description of how the launch and recovery operations are going to work. I think the animator had a lot of information in hand and made an honest effort to incorproate as much details as possible... but the particulars are naturally subject to change.

For sure.  For example, the last core lands in the center pad, and no divert is shown (though in reality might be difficult to see).  Everything looks slow and gentle, and there are no charring marks on anything.

Fine.

But, simultaneous-dual-core at LC-13 is the intent, and a third core right afterwards (unless it heads out to the barge of course).

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Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #129 on: 02/10/2015 02:26 PM »
I haven't seen this posted yet, but it's pretty on topic for this thread so here goes.  The ink is now dry on the 5-year LC-13 pad lease between the Air Force and SpaceX:

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2015/02/10/spacex-air-force-sign-deal-for-landing-pad-at-cape-canaveral/23163757/

SpaceX and the Air Force have reached an agreement to use a former Atlas launch pad on Cape Canaveral Air Force Station as a landing site for returning Falcon rocket boosters, the 45th Space Wing has confirmed.

FLORIDA TODAY reported last month that a five-year lease of Launch Complex 13 was expected by the end of January.

"The way we see it, this is a classic combination of a highly successful launch past morphing into an equally promising future," Brig. Gen. Nina Armagno, commander of the 45th Space Wing, said in a statement.

"For decades, we have been refining our procedures for getting successful launches skyward here on the Eastern Range," Armagno said. "Now we're looking at processes on how to bring first-stage rockets back to earth at the first landing pad at the Cape. We live in exciting times here on the Space Coast."

Before flying boosters back to shore, SpaceX must first show it can land them safely on an ocean platform. The company will make a second attempt to do that today after a planned 6:05 p.m. launch of a Falcon 9 with the Deep Space Climate Observatory.
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Offline yg1968

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Offline MattMason

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #131 on: 03/11/2015 12:54 PM »
I haven't seen this posted yet, but it's pretty on topic for this thread so here goes.  The ink is now dry on the 5-year LC-13 pad lease between the Air Force and SpaceX:

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2015/02/10/spacex-air-force-sign-deal-for-landing-pad-at-cape-canaveral/23163757/

SpaceX and the Air Force have reached an agreement to use a former Atlas launch pad on Cape Canaveral Air Force Station as a landing site for returning Falcon rocket boosters, the 45th Space Wing has confirmed.

FLORIDA TODAY reported last month that a five-year lease of Launch Complex 13 was expected by the end of January.

"The way we see it, this is a classic combination of a highly successful launch past morphing into an equally promising future," Brig. Gen. Nina Armagno, commander of the 45th Space Wing, said in a statement.

"For decades, we have been refining our procedures for getting successful launches skyward here on the Eastern Range," Armagno said. "Now we're looking at processes on how to bring first-stage rockets back to earth at the first landing pad at the Cape. We live in exciting times here on the Space Coast."

Before flying boosters back to shore, SpaceX must first show it can land them safely on an ocean platform. The company will make a second attempt to do that today after a planned 6:05 p.m. launch of a Falcon 9 with the Deep Space Climate Observatory.

Reinforcing this information, Florida Today reporter James Dean has tweeted a sign that apparently has renamed Launch Complex 13 as Landing Complex 1.

https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/575335955181268992/photo/1
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Online philw1776

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #132 on: 03/11/2015 04:40 PM »
Parabolic Arc reports that a draft environmental report supports the new facility. While clearing out several acres of brush will temporarily disrupt some wildlife, they'll offset this with fresh growth over the next 5 years.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2015/01/12/draft-environmental-report-backs-spacex-landing-facility-cape-canaveral/

One item in there is: "The assessment also recommended a number of other mitigation measures, including limiting construction activities during the scrub-jay’s nesting season."


I just hope the core landings don't make those tasty scrub jays too well done.  I like mine blackened medium rare.
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Online edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #133 on: 03/11/2015 04:47 PM »
Will "Landing Complex 1" be the official (US Air Force) name, or will it remain LC 13 on their books?

(I see Jonathan has already pointed out that "LC 1" will be confusing to historians, since Cape Canaveral already had a "Launch Complex 1", and others have pointed out that it shouldn't be "1" anyway, since missile and space landings have previously occurred at the Skid Strip and Shuttle Landing Facility).

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« Last Edit: 03/11/2015 04:51 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline MattMason

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #134 on: 03/11/2015 05:17 PM »
Will "Landing Complex 1" be the official (US Air Force) name, or will it remain LC 13 on their books?

(I see Jonathan has already pointed out that "LC 1" will be confusing to historians, since Cape Canaveral already had a "Launch Complex 1", and others have pointed out that it shouldn't be "1" anyway, since missile and space landings have previously occurred at the Skid Strip and Shuttle Landing Facility).

 - Ed Kyle

I'd say this is official, since the Air Force probably made that very sign we're seeing. Being the government, logic doesn't come into play here with naming, sensible or otherwise. ;)

It's a rather historic thing, though. Rather stimulating to see. At least the bulldozing and pad creation should be relatively quick, but SpaceX has to show several ASDS landings before they'll get to use this place.
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Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #135 on: 03/11/2015 11:17 PM »
There's no requirement for them to adopt "LC-1" as the abbreviation.  They could go with "LanC-1" (sounds like Lancy), or "LanCom-1" (sounds like Lancome), etc.
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Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #136 on: 03/11/2015 11:49 PM »
Well the airport next door named its runways 1, 10, 19, and 28.
Go figure.
:)  (aviation joke)
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Offline mheney

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #137 on: 03/12/2015 02:56 PM »
There's no requirement for them to adopt "LC-1" as the abbreviation.  They could go with "LanC-1" (sounds like Lancy), or "LanCom-1" (sounds like Lancome), etc.

Or LC-1-Down (as opposed to LC-40-Up)

Online dglow

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #138 on: 03/13/2015 12:47 AM »
There's no requirement for them to adopt "LC-1" as the abbreviation.  They could go with "LanC-1" (sounds like Lancy), or "LanCom-1" (sounds like Lancome), etc.

Or LC-1-Down (as opposed to LC-40-Up)

Nope, very simple: 'Departures' and 'Arrivals'

Offline oiorionsbelt

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #139 on: 03/13/2015 03:20 PM »

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