Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2  (Read 2415319 times)

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #800 on: 01/10/2015 02:24 PM »
Sounds like the hydraulic system was likely made inoperable on one or two of the thrusters. Which would mean they'd be stuck in the down position. I guess they'll have to spend some time dealing with that. Might just connect new hyd hoses to quest temp and fold them up?
If you have a basis for this wild speculation please detail it. 
Where have you seen mention of hydraulics or thrusters, or any link at all between the two?
There are no thrusters in "the down position" nor do the thrusters move.
Shy of real information, there isn't much use in guessing what went wrong. 
Likewise if one or two of your points can be clarified but the basis is still speculation, there isn't a reason to go back and forth on this.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #801 on: 01/10/2015 02:41 PM »
@Comga, there are Thrustmaster thrusters, which are indeed hydralically powered.  If you read this thread from the beginning you'll find an identification of every major box on deck and its purpose.

It's fair to ask how @dorkmo got his information about the thrusters, but the rest is well documented in this thread already.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #802 on: 01/10/2015 03:13 PM »
@Comga, there are Thrustmaster thrusters, which are indeed hydralically powered.  If you read this thread from the beginning you'll find an identification of every major box on deck and its purpose.

It's fair to ask how @dorkmo got his information about the thrusters, but the rest is well documented in this thread already.

Oh.  Sorry.  Thrusters on the barge.  I thought he was referring to cold gas thrusters on the first stage.  The post was not specific.

I still have seen absolutely no information on any damage to the thrusters.  The only news was Musk's tweet that they will have to replace some things on the deck.  The Thrustmaster propulsion units are under the deck, and well protected.

Was dorkmo saying that among the damaged items is a hydraulic generator without which they will be unable to lift the station keeping thrusters out of the water?  What would be the basis for that?
« Last Edit: 01/10/2015 03:14 PM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #803 on: 01/10/2015 04:02 PM »
The Thrustmaster propulsion units are under the deck, and well protected.

The drive units are under the deck, but the diesel engines and the hydraulic pumps which power the drive units are inside the blue containers on deck.

So if one of the blue containers took a hit, that could knock out a Thrustmaster.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2015 04:05 PM by Kabloona »

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #804 on: 01/10/2015 05:08 PM »
Playing @dorkmo's advocate for a moment, I *think* he was speculating on what might cause the ASDS to be delayed in its return to shore.

If any of the on-deck thrustmaster stuff was damaged, causing a thruster pod to be stuck in the down position but inactive, that might indeed cause a bit of at-sea delay while it's attended to.  Perhaps they can cross-plumb some of the hydraulics in order to retract the thruster pod at least.

None of the other on-deck equipment seems critical to sea-worthiness during towing operations, so any other damage will probably not prevent an on-time return to within range of our greedy little webcam-assisted eyes. ;)

(I personally think that at-sea recovery operations of debris will probably delay return a day or so, but not more.)

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #805 on: 01/10/2015 05:22 PM »
An other option would be to include iron feet, so ferromagnetic material but not a permanent magnet and use an electro magnet on the barge. But that also seems to be a huge investment. Not to speak of the power consumption that the barge would need or that.

You may be the crystal ball winner here!

Uh, no.  Look at Elon's full quote.  No magnets involved.  Just a welder.

Rats. I was hoping to see workers plastered to the deck, held there by belt buckles  and cell phones...
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Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #806 on: 01/10/2015 05:37 PM »
If any of the on-deck thrustmaster stuff was damaged, causing a thruster pod to be stuck in the down position but inactive, that might indeed cause a bit of at-sea delay while it's attended to.  Perhaps they can cross-plumb some of the hydraulics in order to retract the thruster pod at least.
It seems extremely questionable that the thrusters will have any meaningful drag preventing towing, or be further damaged by doing so.

The port is deep enough, as is the river - for the deployed thrusters.
The thrusters have been run in dock IIRC to test them.
There was an image I think in the first thread of this.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #807 on: 01/10/2015 07:54 PM »
I'm not worried too much about the barge itself. It's like getting landed on by a giant empty soda can. It's the fire that's likely to have done the most damage.
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Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #808 on: 01/10/2015 08:02 PM »
I'm not worried too much about the barge itself. It's like getting landed on by a giant empty soda can. It's the fire that's likely to have done the most damage.

Was there a fire?  I assumed the damage was just from the staging tipping over and landing on exposed equipment.
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Offline Avron

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #809 on: 01/10/2015 08:09 PM »
I'm not worried too much about the barge itself. It's like getting landed on by a giant empty soda can. It's the fire that's likely to have done the most damage.

Was there a fire?  I assumed the damage was just from the staging tipping over and landing on exposed equipment.
  I think hard landing is closer to controlled crash..  the good news, it that I am told quote "its a tough little barge"

Offline llanitedave

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #810 on: 01/10/2015 08:21 PM »
If there's any residual fuel I'd expect a small fire.  Even 15 gallons can make quite a spectacular show, momentarily.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #811 on: 01/10/2015 08:24 PM »
Yeah, barges tend to be pretty tough, especially compared to gossamer aerospace structures.
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Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #812 on: 01/10/2015 09:17 PM »
Yeah, barges tend to be pretty tough, especially compared to gossamer aerospace structures.

Yup.  Two minutes after the hard landing, the barge goes "Well are they coming in or not?"
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Offline Geron

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #813 on: 01/10/2015 09:25 PM »
Musk says the next attempt is February, any idea which mission?

Online ugordan

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #814 on: 01/10/2015 09:31 PM »
DSCOVR.

Offline robertross

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #815 on: 01/10/2015 10:55 PM »
I'm not worried too much about the barge itself. It's like getting landed on by a giant empty soda can. It's the fire that's likely to have done the most damage.

Was there a fire?  I assumed the damage was just from the staging tipping over and landing on exposed equipment.

Depends on the quantities of the remaining propellants: LOX & RP-1.
If you run a little fuel rich, you want to have a bit more 'in the tank' per se.

SO I bet there was some RP-1 left that may have ignited. No biggy, I'm sure. If there was a good quantity of LOX left over and it helped the fire along, then you'd see a good fire ball.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #816 on: 01/10/2015 10:59 PM »
Yeah, barges tend to be pretty tough, especially compared to gossamer aerospace structures.

Yup.  Two minutes after the hard landing, the barge goes "Well are they coming in or not?"

And then it goes, "Why is it so hot out here?"

Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #817 on: 01/10/2015 11:27 PM »
Hey, they did terribly well to get even halfway there! Let's dwell on the positives, never mind not quite landing the thing in the dark, fog, and heaving seas!

Offline QuantumG

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #818 on: 01/10/2015 11:33 PM »
It'd be much easier to accentuate the positive if so many people weren't trying to eliminate the negative. "Look at how far we've come" should always be tempered with how far there is still to go.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline llanitedave

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #819 on: 01/10/2015 11:34 PM »
Like, Mars!
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

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