Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2  (Read 2398249 times)

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28381
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 8242
  • Likes Given: 5444
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #620 on: 01/06/2015 05:36 AM »
It's a steel deck almost certainly. Last time I checked, steel is weldable.

What could be those bumps in gridded pattern?
Tiedowns?

The advantage of welding is they can weld anywhere, no matter how the rocket lands on the deck. Doesn't make any sense for there to need to be any special welding points on the deck when the deck is steel.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Ohsin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Liked: 1451
  • Likes Given: 2380
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #621 on: 01/06/2015 05:46 AM »
It's a steel deck almost certainly. Last time I checked, steel is weldable.

What could be those bumps in gridded pattern?
Tiedowns?

The advantage of welding is they can weld anywhere, no matter how the rocket lands on the deck. Doesn't make any sense for there to need to be any special welding points on the deck when the deck is steel.

Back in thread in Eer's pics those bumps were spotted and I did try to visualize them how they were laid out on deck. And it was grid pattern. If we assume deck is all steel then I guess tie downs are for redundancy. Weld is obviously great and simplicity of this weldable shoes method is lovely.
"Well, three cheers to Sharma, but our real baby is INSAT."

Offline ChrisWilson68

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3700
  • Sunnyvale, CA
  • Liked: 2277
  • Likes Given: 2920
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #622 on: 01/06/2015 05:50 AM »
First tie down, because it's fast, then weld, to make it even more stable.  Seems plausible to me.

Offline AJW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Liked: 490
  • Likes Given: 63
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #623 on: 01/06/2015 05:54 AM »
Welding in the vicinity of a tank holding residual RP-1 near valves that just went through a mach 10 re-entry seems far riskier than tie-downs that have been used for decades on aircraft carriers.  Aircraft tie-downs are quick to install, reliable, and easily disengaged.  Carrier decks have padeyes every 3-5 feet so landing location should not be the issue, but the scale of the first stage may make them impractical.

Offline Ohsin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Liked: 1451
  • Likes Given: 2380
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #624 on: 01/06/2015 05:58 AM »
Welding in the vicinity of a tank holding residual RP-1 near valves that just went through a mach 10 re-entry seems far riskier than tie-downs that have been used for decades on aircraft carriers.  Aircraft tie-downs are quick to install, reliable, and easily disengaged.  Carrier decks have padeyes every 3-5 feet so landing location should not be the issue, but the scale of the first stage may make them impractical.

Imagine a scenario where you have a partially disintegrated booster on deck that needs securing and sweet RP1 spill. And would it be a lightning magnet or something?
« Last Edit: 01/06/2015 05:59 AM by Ohsin »
"Well, three cheers to Sharma, but our real baby is INSAT."

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28381
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 8242
  • Likes Given: 5444
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #625 on: 01/06/2015 06:00 AM »
Welding in the vicinity of a tank holding residual RP-1 near valves that just went through a mach 10 re-entry seems far riskier than tie-downs that have been used for decades on aircraft carriers.  Aircraft tie-downs are quick to install, reliable, and easily disengaged.  Carrier decks have padeyes every 3-5 feet so landing location should not be the issue, but the scale of the first stage may make them impractical.
Too bad, they're going to weld.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline CameronD

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1403
  • Melbourne, Australia
    • Norton Consultants
  • Liked: 450
  • Likes Given: 334
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #626 on: 01/06/2015 06:03 AM »
Welding in the vicinity of a tank holding residual RP-1 near valves that just went through a mach 10 re-entry seems far riskier than tie-downs that have been used for decades on aircraft carriers.  Aircraft tie-downs are quick to install, reliable, and easily disengaged.  Carrier decks have padeyes every 3-5 feet so landing location should not be the issue, but the scale of the first stage may make them impractical.

1. Welding won't be all that risky - particularly at a fair distance from the body of the stage.  This is open ocean air and you can be sure they'll go around the rocket with a portable gas monitor in any case before they start up the welder.

2. I'd imagine that, having actually landed the stage on the deck, in one piece, with no damage to anyone or anything, they'd be extremely happy to weld the stage down hard - given that the alternative means there's nothing to weld at all... ::)
« Last Edit: 01/06/2015 06:05 AM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Ohsin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Liked: 1451
  • Likes Given: 2380
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #627 on: 01/06/2015 06:10 AM »
Welding in the vicinity of a tank holding residual RP-1 near valves that just went through a mach 10 re-entry seems far riskier than tie-downs that have been used for decades on aircraft carriers.  Aircraft tie-downs are quick to install, reliable, and easily disengaged.  Carrier decks have padeyes every 3-5 feet so landing location should not be the issue, but the scale of the first stage may make them impractical.
Too bad, they're going to weld.

That is not even being questioned here...
"Well, three cheers to Sharma, but our real baby is INSAT."

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8640
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3554
  • Likes Given: 840
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #628 on: 01/06/2015 06:17 AM »
Imagine a scenario where you have a partially disintegrated booster on deck that needs securing and sweet RP1 spill. And would it be a lightning magnet or something?

Just hose it down.

I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline PhilW

Imagine a scenario where you have a partially disintegrated booster on deck that needs securing and sweet RP1 spill. And would it be a lightning magnet or something?

Just hose it down.
Yup.

Offline Ohsin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Liked: 1451
  • Likes Given: 2380
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #630 on: 01/06/2015 06:27 AM »
"Well, three cheers to Sharma, but our real baby is INSAT."

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8640
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3554
  • Likes Given: 840
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #631 on: 01/06/2015 06:31 AM »
« Last Edit: 01/06/2015 06:32 AM by QuantumG »
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline Ohsin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Liked: 1451
  • Likes Given: 2380
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #632 on: 01/06/2015 06:41 AM »
Imagine a scenario where you have a partially disintegrated booster on deck that needs securing and sweet RP1 spill. And would it be a lightning magnet or something?

Just hose it down.

Fumes could be problem? Shoes on legs seems a bit too specific a solution not much flexibility in case something unforeseen happens.
"Well, three cheers to Sharma, but our real baby is INSAT."

Offline llanitedave

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2153
  • Nevada Desert
  • Liked: 1331
  • Likes Given: 1561
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #633 on: 01/06/2015 06:50 AM »
Fumes won't be a problem in the case of a successful landing.  If the stage crashes on the barge, there won't be any welding, but a lot of hosing.  Welding the bracket shoes over the tips of the legs will be easier, quicker, and safer than most of the kinds of welding I've seen on drill rigs all my life.  Drill rigs are greasy, leaky things powered by diesel fuel and generally sprayed with hydraulic fluid.  But drillers weld casing pipe, and cut it, and build brackets, and cut them, all the time.  They keep their liquid volatiles inside metal cans, and put a screen around the item they're welding to keep sparks from flying everywhere.

It's quick, easy, strong, and second-for-second probably safer than trying to scoot the legs around or handle stiff wet ropes or wires.  And this way the structure remains in a non-tensioned state, and is less likely to be damaged.

It's nothing to be concerned about.  Really.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline Jdeshetler

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2002
  • Likes Given: 1473
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #634 on: 01/06/2015 07:15 AM »
1. Welding won't be all that risky - particularly at a fair distance from the body of the stage.  This is open ocean air and you can be sure they'll go around the rocket with a portable gas monitor in any case before they start up the welder.

2. I'd imagine that, having actually landed the stage on the deck, in one piece, with no damage to anyone or anything, they'd be extremely happy to weld the stage down hard - given that the alternative means there's nothing to weld at all... ::)

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/enginedriven/product.php?model=M00495
If the blue generator in the photo (red circle) is the same series or class as the link above then this welding generator can support two operators at the same time. (Done some heavy welding on several truck projects.)

The support crew would need to quickly removed the paints around the carbon leg's pads until the metal surface is bare and clean before the oversize steel shoes is dropped over.

Offline mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1265
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1579
  • Likes Given: 4217
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #635 on: 01/06/2015 07:24 AM »
Welding in the vicinity of a tank holding residual RP-1 near valves that just went through a mach 10 re-entry ...
They aren't in close proximity to the RP-1 tanks, the legs are quite long and the tanks are above the engines.  In the pre-launch video Hans said that the crew would board an hour or two after the stage lands.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline PhilW

1. Welding won't be all that risky - particularly at a fair distance from the body of the stage.  This is open ocean air and you can be sure they'll go around the rocket with a portable gas monitor in any case before they start up the welder.

2. I'd imagine that, having actually landed the stage on the deck, in one piece, with no damage to anyone or anything, they'd be extremely happy to weld the stage down hard - given that the alternative means there's nothing to weld at all... ::)

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/enginedriven/product.php?model=M00495
If the blue generator in the photo (red circle) is the same series or class as the link above then this welding generator can support two operators at the same time. (Done some heavy welding on several truck projects.)

The support crew would need to quickly removed the paints around the carbon leg's pads until the metal surface is bare and clean before the oversize steel shoes is dropped over.
Looks like there are 2 Blue Welders. One at each end / opposite corners of the ASDS.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2015 07:29 AM by PhilW »

Offline PhilW


Offline douglas100

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Liked: 226
  • Likes Given: 104
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #638 on: 01/06/2015 09:15 AM »
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6ph-aTCYAA9UNH.png:large

Don't know how accurate this is...

Nice diagram,  but I think it was reported somewhere that the grid fins deploy shortly after staging, well before entry.
Douglas Clark

Offline cartman

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 506
  • Greece
  • Liked: 487
  • Likes Given: 2543
Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #639 on: 01/06/2015 09:34 AM »
No positions have been received from the ships for over 9 hours now, so i guess they have stopped transmitting... Closest ships to the landing area are over 50 miles away.

Tags: