An yearly manned mission around Sun - proposal by Vladimir Bugrov

[fregate]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

[TakeOff]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

[asmi]

They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Lol - every single space program so far is like that. How many interplanetary manned missions has been launched by NASA, or ESA, or JAXA, or CNSA? And how many has been promised?

[fregate]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Let's try to be fair and objective and check the facts:
- USSR did not have a national space agency, Russia has it - Russian Federal Space Agency (aka ROSKOSMOS or before ROSAviaKosmos) since 1992;
- Russian ROBOTIC (non manned) mission to reach SEL-2 (my mistake not SEL-1) is Spektr-RG X-Ray spacecraft (scheduled for 2016)

Before making any BIG POLITICAL STATEMENTS please do your homework and find out about the following events:
- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
- which LV/space Tug send Gaia unmanned space observatory of the European Space Agency (ESA) into SEL-2 transfer orbit before it reach final destination in Jan 2014?

I found Russian space program fascinating - they always deliver  their projects (subject to funding, of course). You are entitle to your personal opinion, but without facts it does not hold ANY value. Please refrain from POLITICAL likes and dislikes.
Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

[asmi]

Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

Russia has the largest space budget in terms of fraction of GDP, which shows its commitment to space exploration much more than anything else IMHO. Even in absolute terms it's only second to NASA budget, while it's GDP is lowest among ISS partners (if we count ESA as a single entity). I recently found that Russia spends around 1.2B$ annually on ISS ops, which is IMHO a lot. THIS is why continuing ISS operations post-2020 is being questioned in Russia (and no - it's NOT related to current crisis - this debate was ongoing for almost as long as ISS exists, it just was never covered in the West media before).

[fregate]

Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

Russia has the largest space budget in terms of fraction of GDP, which shows its commitment to space exploration much more than anything else IMHO. Even in absolute terms it's only second to NASA budget, while it's GDP is lowest among ISS partners (if we count ESA as a single entity). I recently found that Russia spends around 1.2B$ annually on ISS ops, which is IMHO a lot. THIS is why continuing ISS operations post-2020 is being questioned in Russia (and no - it's NOT related to current crisis - this debate was ongoing for almost as long as ISS exists, it just was never covered in the West media before).

According to RussianSpaceWeb.com page dedicated to OPSEK, on 17 June 2009, Roscosmos officially informed its ISS partner, the United States, about its intention to "build and prepare for operation the first elements of the orbital assembly and experimental piloted space complex by the end of the ISS life cycle. Nobody in the West took this statement seriously    

[savuporo]

- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
..       

I don't think there is a lot to argue about russian launch vehicles, however Fregat, Briz and Blok-D aren't really interplanetary spacecraft. I'd really like to see a reboot of Venera's, Luna's, Lunokhod's and the like, but its far from obvious that russian planetary science is really yet rebounding

[fregate]

Let's wait until it would happen. BTW all 3 ESA missions had been launched on top of Soyuz/Fregate LV ;(

[savuporo]

Let's wait until it would happen. BTW all 3 ESA missions had been launched on top of Soyuz/Fregate LV ;(

But this doesnt say much anything else than competitive launch vehicles win. A 10-billion dollar flagship US project JWST is going to be launched on Ariane 5.

[pagheca]

Don't we ALL make an yearly manned mission around Sun? Every year?

[fregate]

Don't we ALL make an yearly manned mission around Sun? Every year?

Yes, we do - on a luxurious spaceship called planet Earth

[Quagga]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

Fobos 2 was launched on July 12, 1988. Russia will continue its interplanetary missions with Exomars in 2016.

[TakeOff]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Let's try to be fair and objective and check the facts:
- USSR did not have a national space agency, Russia has it - Russian Federal Space Agency (aka ROSKOSMOS or before ROSAviaKosmos) since 1992;
- Russian ROBOTIC (non manned) mission to reach SEL-2 (my mistake not SEL-1) is Spektr-RG X-Ray spacecraft (scheduled for 2016)

Before making any BIG POLITICAL STATEMENTS please do your homework and find out about the following events:
- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
- which LV/space Tug send Gaia unmanned space observatory of the European Space Agency (ESA) into SEL-2 transfer orbit before it reach final destination in Jan 2014?

I found Russian space program fascinating - they always deliver  their projects (subject to funding, of course). You are entitle to your personal opinion, but without facts it does not hold ANY value. Please refrain from POLITICAL likes and dislikes.
Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

"Political statement"? I just said that the Russians were occupied by the commies during most of the last century. Is that controversial???

Russian space program is great at reliable launch vehicles, and at rocket engines especially since the US and Chinese buy so many of them. And at long duration human space flight. They do run the largest space telescope in the world, the 10 meter diameter Spektr-R as the only space interferometer with Earth bound radio telescopes, operating in cis-lunar space. If a version of that goes to a Sun-Earth Lagrange point in 2016, then it'd be fantastic. It'd be the first time in over 30 years that Russia send something to beyond (direct) Earth orbit. They are as green about interplanetary missions as is India today. Russia simply is not an interplanetary player which competes with NASA, ESA, JAXA or even Indian ISRO or the Chinese. Russia isn't up there and their plans for the 2020's are diffuse.

[fregate]

And I agree with your assessment of the current state of RUSSIAN interplanetary program. Let's move this discussion to separate topic (I suspect that might be one already). In meantime I have to translate text on 5 images in this topic

[fregate]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

From the history of NASA Lunar exploration program: 
1. Robotic Lander
The last one was Surveyor 7 - Jan 7, 1968 and NOTHING to date (I am not counting LCROSS that was crash impactor), 46 years and counting
2. Lunar Orbiter - gap between Explorer 49 (RAE-B) mission (1973)  and Clementine mission (1994) was 21 years (!) 
So "Let's keep this party POLITE" - when it came to Moon missions, NASA is slightly more energetic than Russia but not MUCH

[fregate]

I highly recommend you to browse through pages of this book (unfortunately only in Russian)
ПИЛОТИРУЕМАЯ ЭКСПЕДИЦИЯ НА МАРС
Под ред. А.С. Коротеева.– М.: Российская академия космонавтики имени К.Э. Циолковского, 2006.
MANNED MISSION TO MARS - Ed. A.S. Koroteev - Moscow, Russian Tsiolkovsky's Academy of Cosmonautics, 2006 
Courtesy of Russian Federal space agency - Hi-Res PDF links (by chapters) are available here
Anatoly Zak dedicated a whole chapter V to Mars Manned exploration plans in his book "Russia in Space" (Second edition currently in print)

[fregate]

You also could download book Korolev's Martian Project by Vladimir Bugrov:
fb2 format
djvu format
OR read online

[fregate]

Translation of the first slide

[Dalhousie]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Let's try to be fair and objective and check the facts:
- USSR did not have a national space agency, Russia has it - Russian Federal Space Agency (aka ROSKOSMOS or before ROSAviaKosmos) since 1992;
- Russian ROBOTIC (non manned) mission to reach SEL-2 (my mistake not SEL-1) is Spektr-RG X-Ray spacecraft (scheduled for 2016)

Before making any BIG POLITICAL STATEMENTS please do your homework and find out about the following events:
- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
- which LV/space Tug send Gaia unmanned space observatory of the European Space Agency (ESA) into SEL-2 transfer orbit before it reach final destination in Jan 2014?

I found Russian space program fascinating - they always deliver  their projects (subject to funding, of course). You are entitle to your personal opinion, but without facts it does not hold ANY value. Please refrain from POLITICAL likes and dislikes.
Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

"Political statement"? I just said that the Russians were occupied by the commies during most of the last century. Is that controversial???

I would suggest that expressions like "occupied by commies" went out in the 1950s.

You assessment of the Chinese space program is also almost  completely divorced from reality.

I suggest you take your views on China to the Chinese section and the outdated political invective elsewhere completely.

[Mark S]

A few questions:

1. Why is the TMK stack launched from Earth in a retrograde orbit? Doesn't that have a massive payload penalty?
2. Is the sun shield designed to focus the Sun's already-intense light on the TMK core? It looks like a giant reflector dish, and some of the pictures show it facing the sun, but others show it facing away.
3. If the TMK is shielded from the sun, then the crew return Soyuz is directly and continuously exposed to the Sun.
4. The picture seems to indicate that assembly takes place at SEL1, not at EML2.

This is all very confusing to me. I should go back a re-read the CONOPS, because so far it is making no sense. And even if it did make sense, I am having trouble seeing the benefit to be gained from such a mission. Couldn't they do the exact same mission, one year autonomous flight, in LEO, or even EML1/2?

Thanks!