An yearly manned mission around Sun - proposal by Vladimir Bugrov

[fregate]

This is serious proposal (please do refrain from jokes about Irish on the Sun and Soviet Sun landing 

12.12.2014
Владимир Бугров предлагает вернуть стране статус первой космической державы с помощью полета вокруг Солнца
Россия сможет вернуть себе утерянный статус первой космической державы, если первой осуществит полет человека вокруг Солнца - такое мнение высказал разработчик проектов экспедиции на Марс и Луну Владимир Бугров в интервью "Российской газете". По его подсчетам, в случае принятия "политического решения" первый в мире полет человека вокруг Солнца может состояться в ближайшие 8-10 лет. "Это сделает космодром Восточный новым ракетно-космическим регионом России. Это вернет России статус первой космической державы", - уверен специалист. Комментируя планы Роскосмоса о создании отечественной орбитальной станции, он высказал убеждение, что это должен быть прототип межпланетного корабля. "Пилотируемые программы требуют больших затрат и должны приниматься политическими решениями, в пользу национальных интересов, - отметил Бугров. - В данном случае они очевидны: МКС в нынешнем виде для нас уже прошедший этап". По его мнению, корабль, разработанный для полета к Марсу, решит любые задачи в околоземном пространстве и на Луне. "А вот корабль, созданный только для Луны, в межпланетном полете не будет использован и станет тупиковым, как "Аполлон", - указал собеседник издания. "Сегодня реально планируются и выполняются только международные обязательства по МКС. Системный подход игнорируется. На лунной базе планируют отрабатывать технологии пребывания на Марсе, но не планируют проверять, может ли человек долететь до Марса. Ракета "Ангара", космодром Восточный, электрореактивные буксиры - это части какого-то будущего комплекса, проекта которого нет", - отметил Бугров. Разработать такой проект, по его мнению, должен "ансамбль" конструкторских бюро во главе с РКК "Энергия", а за основу нужно взять проект легендарного отечественного конструктора Сергея Королева: тяжелый межпланетный корабль выводится 80-тонной ракетой на эллиптическую траекторию, с апогеем в точке либрации между Землей и Солнцем, фиксируется в этой точке и выполняет полет по гелиоцентрической орбите. "Речь идет не о посадке на Марс, хотя она и будет конечной целью, - подчеркнул Бугров. - Необходимо проработать облик корабля для выполнения промежуточного этапа - полета в межпланетном пространстве. Стоимость такого полета к Марсу в десятки раз ниже стоимости создания той же лунной базы. Но его потом можно использовать и в лунной программе".

Vladimir Bugrov proposal to fly a manned mission around Sun could get Russia status of the great space-faring nation - this is a professional opinion of Mars and Lunar Manned missions designer expressed in his interview with "The Russian Newspaper". According to his estimations, if such political decision would be made today, a historical first manned space mission around the Sun might be made within 8-10 years. He is quite confident that "such event would transform Vostochny spaceport into a brand new major Russian rocket & space center and also would guarantee that Russia would recapture a status of the world leading space power"

Commenting Roskosmos plans about national orbital station, he expressed an opinion that it has to be a prototype of interplanetary spacecraft. "Manned space exploration programs require huge amount of investments and must be supported by political decisions to promote national interests" - said Bugrov. "In this particular instance those benefits are quite obvious - ISS in current configuration for us a the beaten path." According to his opinion, spacecraft to be developed for Martian mission, would be capable to carry any mission on LEO and in cis-Lunar space.  On a contrary - a spacecraft to be created exclusively for missions cis-Lunar space would not be capable to perform and interplanetary flight and would lead to a dead-end development, that happened with Apollo program."
 
"At present time Roskosmos only thoroughly carries out plans on its ISS international commitments. A system approach is completely ignored. On Lunar base we are planning feasibility of technology to be used on Mars but nobody is bothering to validate if human could fly to Mars. Angara LV, Vostochny spaceport, electrically propelled space tugs seems to be a random parts of a big mission stack while there is no an integrated project" - noted Bugrov.     

According to him such project could be developed by a cross-reference team of major Design Bureaus led by RKK Energia, and as a template this project could use a legendary vision of S.Korolev. Heavy interplanetary assembly stack (mass 80 tones) could be launch by SHLV to a highly elliptical orbit with apogee in the Sun-Earth Lagrange point (SEL-1),  and be inserted on heliocentric orbit upon arrival   

'We are not talking here about manned Mars Landing, that sill an ultimate goal" - highlighted Bugrov. "We have to worked out a concept of expedition stack that capable to perform an intermediate leg of the journey an interplanetary flight from Earth to Mars. Cost of such mission to Mars are 10 times smaller than price tug of the Lunar Base. But interplanetary expedition assembly stack could be re-used in Lunar program."

Original articles in "Russian newspaper" by Natalia Yachmennikova (Наталия Ячменникова)
Облетим вокруг Солнца from 10 Dec 2014
Замкнутый солнечный круг from 12 Apr 2012
and
Владимир Бугров: «Наша цель — полёт на Марс!» By Julia Novitskaya (Юлия Новицкая)  from 10 Apr 2012











Who is Vladimir Bugrov?
Bugrov, Vladimir Yevgrafovich (1933-) Russian engineer cosmonaut, 1966-1968.
Engineering degree from Moscow Aviation Institute (MAI), 1956. Civilian Engineer, Korolev OKB. Involved in the Soviet Lunar Landing Program. Left the cosmonaut corps for medical reasons. Worked at NPO Energia. In 1995 became advisor and technical director of AO Gazkom. Later retired.

He is author of the book The Martian Project of S.P.Korolev, 2009 "Russkie Vityazi"(in Russian)
He participated in Russian documentary film Tsar-rocket. Interrupted flight.. (2006) about Soviet Lunar Launch Vehicle N-1  and was a special consultant for Canadian/French TV Series documentary "Mars Rising" (2007)

A noble idea that is required a strong political will from current Russian Federation administration

[baldusi]

What would be the scientific and technical value of such a mission? Wouldn't a Venus fly-by be more worthy, for basically the same technical difficulty?

[fregate]

What would be the scientific and technical value of such a mission? Wouldn't a Venus fly-by be more worthy, for basically the same technical difficulty?

@Alessandro: Technical value - POC of the Martian Manned Mission (without constraints of mission window opportunity) as a stepping stone to holy grail of Manned Mars Landing mission by testing hardware and crew endurance in one-year flight. IMHO difference between on year on ISS (Soviet cosmonauts already achieve this objective) and one year around Sun is a quantum leap in terms of true Deep Space exploration.
I could definitely smell a slight hint of PR stunt here (in the best traditions of the Soviet Space Program), but never the less such mission would provide unique scientific opportunities beyond LEO, while it has a build-in "safety net" contingency in case of mission abort comparing with either Venus or Mars flyby - by keeping expedition stack not far away from Earth while flying on heliocentric orbit.
Plus additional bonus would be a testing of spacecraft Return Module EDL (Atmospheric Entry, Descent and Landing) on velocities similar to Mars/Venus return leg of the journey.   

[Dalhousie]

What would be the scientific and technical value of such a mission? Wouldn't a Venus fly-by be more worthy, for basically the same technical difficulty?

Unlike a flyby mission this would not be constrained by launch windows.  It would be a pure engineering and biomedical test mission.

[Dalhousie]

Would it be possible to have English annotations of those excellent illustrations?

[fregate]

Yes it would be possible - I just need extra more time: still translating summary of the news article before turning my head to pictures. Have a look at links I privided. Unfortunately all of them in Russian only. 

[baldusi]

If I understand the graphics correctly, the idea is to build the stack on LEO (particularly the solar shield). Then attach a series of tug. Then they crew and commission. Only then they go to a closer heliocentric orbit, probably still in plane to Earth. After they visit the opposite side of the Sun, they return.
It requires a lot more maneuvers than doing Venus fly by, for example. And they still couldn't return to Earth faster than completing the whole mission, if anything goes wrong. In fact, a failure on main propulsion is LOC. Venus flyby could be done just with auxiliary propulsion (if they use same propellant tank than main).
In other words, they will have all the risks of doing a really BEO mission but visit nothing interesting. Exactly the same effort and risk will get you a Venus or Mars fly-by. The Venus fly-by would take about the same time, the Mars would be longer, of course. This is what I don't get.  If you want to test everything that's risky to Mars just go to EML2. Exactly same requirements but you're 700m/s and one week away from Earth. And while you can simulate low bandwidth high latency there, you can't get back the 2400ms/100MBps connection that you could easily do from the Moon.
Obviously I'm just talking from watching the pictures since regrettably, I don't speak, much less read, Russian.

[DMeader]

Wasn't there a Gerry Anderson movie once? Oh yeah!

"Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064519/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1.

It didn't end well.

Seriously, what's the point. We'll ALL be on the far side of the sun in 6 or 7 months. If someone wants to spend an extended period in space for engineering or biomedical testing, I don't see the need to travel something on the order of 940 million kilometers without really going anywhere.

[fregate]

Movie is rather philosophical - an attempt to express in a very popular form concept of duality in nature to the extreme level (spoiler alert - by "inventing" a concept of Earth-2 that is not visible from Earth because it was placed on the same Earth heliocentric orbit with phase angle of 180 degrees making Earth 2 and Earth sitting on the diameter of circle with Sun in the Center). IMHO movie Has nothing to do with proposed mission - Bugrov proposed to launch expedition stack to highly elliptical orbit with apogee in one of the sun earth system libration points. Idea much closer to Buzz Alrdin Mars cycler expedition complex
But there is a chance that reality would bypass sci-fi movie idea from 1969.

[Dalhousie]

Seriously, what's the point. We'll ALL be on the far side of the sun in 6 or 7 months. If someone wants to spend an extended period in space for engineering or biomedical testing, I don't see the need to travel something on the order of 940 million kilometers without really going anywhere.

As I understand it would examine engineering and biomedical issues in the deep space environment, without the complexities of interplanetary encounters and launch windows and with some return possibilities in an emergency.

[geza]

In case of circular orbit, the stack EITHER remains in orbit very close to Earth's one, allowing any time return with moderate delta V, OR must go significantly closer to Sun to allow a return not too far in the future. The first case is nothing better, than going to a libration point. In the second case the spacecraft goes beyond Sun, as seen from Earth - and no emergency return. If the orbital period of the stack is 1/2 year, then it meets Earth again after 2 revolution, or 1 Earth year. If the period is 0.9 year, then the rendezvous occurs after 9 years, 10 revolutions. Alternatively, and against the picture, the stack must go to an elliptical orbit of arbitrary excentricity. Then, there is no "orbit the Sun" experience (we still orbit it together), but they get far from Earth and closer to Sun. This is something very similar to a Venus flyby, but without the constraints. It is a free parameter (question of initial delta V), how far/close we want to go with this orbit. 

[RonM]

Based on the first graphic, it looks like the station would be at Sun-Earth L1. That's about 1.5 million km from Earth.

[fregate]

That is correct: distance between Earth anf SEL-1 is approximately 0.01 astronomical units - with orbital period of 355 days; I need to calculate a time of flight for Hohmann eliptical transfer trajectory. 
I am sorry if I mislead you with the Far side of the sun concept - that 1969 movie was the closest thing produced by Hollywood!

[baldusi]

That is correct: distance between Earth anf SEL-1 is approximately 0.01 astronomical units - with orbital period of 355 days; I need to calculate a time of flight for Hohmann eliptical transfer trajectory.

So, I misinterpreted the graph? They stay at SEL1 for close to an year and get back or they simply stay in the HEO?

[asmi]

So, I misinterpreted the graph? They stay at SEL1 for close to an year and get back or they simply stay in the HEO?

Article says "going to SEL1 and stay there flying in heliocentric orbit."

[fregate]

Ok, in order to "clear the fog" this is my best understanding of the mission CONCEPT of OPERATION (CONOPS): 
1. Assembly of expedition stack in EML-2 Lagrange point (assembly crews manned flights on Soyuz-L spacecrafts);
2. Arrival of expedition crew to EML-2 and docking with fully assembled and tested expedition stack (manned  flight on PTK NP spacecraft, Deep Space configuration);
3. Injection to highly elliptical Earth orbit with perigee in EML-2 and apogee in SEL-1 Lagrange points;
4. Arrival at SEL-1 and insertion into heliocentric orbit with orbital period 355 days;
5. Heliocentric orbit flight in SEL-1 Lagrange point;
6. Injection to highly elliptical Earth orbit with perigee 100 km above Earth and apogee in SEL-1 Lagrange point performed by space tug and PTK spacecraft stack
7 Discarding space tug, PTK modules separation, atmospheric entry, descent and landing. 

All details about Delta-V and time of flights - later (as soon as I''ll complete translation)     

[TakeOff]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

3. Injection to highly elliptical Earth orbit with perigee in EML-2 and apogee in SEL-1 Lagrange points;

I take it that is a transfer trajectory, not a possible stable orbit?

[baldusi]

The station is also discarded against the Earth or is it left at SEL1?

[fregate]

The station is also discarded against the Earth or is it left at SEL1?

My understating that Lunar Orbital Station in EML-2 became expedition stack after docking with crewed vehicle. 

[fregate]

...

3. Injection to highly elliptical Earth orbit with perigee in EML-2 and apogee in SEL-1 Lagrange points;

I take it that is a transfer trajectory, not a possible stable orbit?

Yes it is a transfer trajectory from EML-2 to SEL-1 when EML-2, Earth and SEL-1 are aligned (I believe that it occured every 28 days) 

[fregate]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

[TakeOff]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

[asmi]

They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Lol - every single space program so far is like that. How many interplanetary manned missions has been launched by NASA, or ESA, or JAXA, or CNSA? And how many has been promised?

[fregate]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Let's try to be fair and objective and check the facts:
- USSR did not have a national space agency, Russia has it - Russian Federal Space Agency (aka ROSKOSMOS or before ROSAviaKosmos) since 1992;
- Russian ROBOTIC (non manned) mission to reach SEL-2 (my mistake not SEL-1) is Spektr-RG X-Ray spacecraft (scheduled for 2016)

Before making any BIG POLITICAL STATEMENTS please do your homework and find out about the following events:
- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
- which LV/space Tug send Gaia unmanned space observatory of the European Space Agency (ESA) into SEL-2 transfer orbit before it reach final destination in Jan 2014?

I found Russian space program fascinating - they always deliver  their projects (subject to funding, of course). You are entitle to your personal opinion, but without facts it does not hold ANY value. Please refrain from POLITICAL likes and dislikes.
Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

[asmi]

Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

Russia has the largest space budget in terms of fraction of GDP, which shows its commitment to space exploration much more than anything else IMHO. Even in absolute terms it's only second to NASA budget, while it's GDP is lowest among ISS partners (if we count ESA as a single entity). I recently found that Russia spends around 1.2B$ annually on ISS ops, which is IMHO a lot. THIS is why continuing ISS operations post-2020 is being questioned in Russia (and no - it's NOT related to current crisis - this debate was ongoing for almost as long as ISS exists, it just was never covered in the West media before).

[fregate]

Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

Russia has the largest space budget in terms of fraction of GDP, which shows its commitment to space exploration much more than anything else IMHO. Even in absolute terms it's only second to NASA budget, while it's GDP is lowest among ISS partners (if we count ESA as a single entity). I recently found that Russia spends around 1.2B$ annually on ISS ops, which is IMHO a lot. THIS is why continuing ISS operations post-2020 is being questioned in Russia (and no - it's NOT related to current crisis - this debate was ongoing for almost as long as ISS exists, it just was never covered in the West media before).

According to RussianSpaceWeb.com page dedicated to OPSEK, on 17 June 2009, Roscosmos officially informed its ISS partner, the United States, about its intention to "build and prepare for operation the first elements of the orbital assembly and experimental piloted space complex by the end of the ISS life cycle. Nobody in the West took this statement seriously    

[savuporo]

- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
..       

I don't think there is a lot to argue about russian launch vehicles, however Fregat, Briz and Blok-D aren't really interplanetary spacecraft. I'd really like to see a reboot of Venera's, Luna's, Lunokhod's and the like, but its far from obvious that russian planetary science is really yet rebounding

[fregate]

Let's wait until it would happen. BTW all 3 ESA missions had been launched on top of Soyuz/Fregate LV ;(

[savuporo]

Let's wait until it would happen. BTW all 3 ESA missions had been launched on top of Soyuz/Fregate LV ;(

But this doesnt say much anything else than competitive launch vehicles win. A 10-billion dollar flagship US project JWST is going to be launched on Ariane 5.

[pagheca]

Don't we ALL make an yearly manned mission around Sun? Every year?

[fregate]

Don't we ALL make an yearly manned mission around Sun? Every year?

Yes, we do - on a luxurious spaceship called planet Earth

[Quagga]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

Fobos 2 was launched on July 12, 1988. Russia will continue its interplanetary missions with Exomars in 2016.

[TakeOff]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Let's try to be fair and objective and check the facts:
- USSR did not have a national space agency, Russia has it - Russian Federal Space Agency (aka ROSKOSMOS or before ROSAviaKosmos) since 1992;
- Russian ROBOTIC (non manned) mission to reach SEL-2 (my mistake not SEL-1) is Spektr-RG X-Ray spacecraft (scheduled for 2016)

Before making any BIG POLITICAL STATEMENTS please do your homework and find out about the following events:
- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
- which LV/space Tug send Gaia unmanned space observatory of the European Space Agency (ESA) into SEL-2 transfer orbit before it reach final destination in Jan 2014?

I found Russian space program fascinating - they always deliver  their projects (subject to funding, of course). You are entitle to your personal opinion, but without facts it does not hold ANY value. Please refrain from POLITICAL likes and dislikes.
Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

"Political statement"? I just said that the Russians were occupied by the commies during most of the last century. Is that controversial???

Russian space program is great at reliable launch vehicles, and at rocket engines especially since the US and Chinese buy so many of them. And at long duration human space flight. They do run the largest space telescope in the world, the 10 meter diameter Spektr-R as the only space interferometer with Earth bound radio telescopes, operating in cis-lunar space. If a version of that goes to a Sun-Earth Lagrange point in 2016, then it'd be fantastic. It'd be the first time in over 30 years that Russia send something to beyond (direct) Earth orbit. They are as green about interplanetary missions as is India today. Russia simply is not an interplanetary player which competes with NASA, ESA, JAXA or even Indian ISRO or the Chinese. Russia isn't up there and their plans for the 2020's are diffuse.

[fregate]

And I agree with your assessment of the current state of RUSSIAN interplanetary program. Let's move this discussion to separate topic (I suspect that might be one already). In meantime I have to translate text on 5 images in this topic

[fregate]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

From the history of NASA Lunar exploration program: 
1. Robotic Lander
The last one was Surveyor 7 - Jan 7, 1968 and NOTHING to date (I am not counting LCROSS that was crash impactor), 46 years and counting
2. Lunar Orbiter - gap between Explorer 49 (RAE-B) mission (1973)  and Clementine mission (1994) was 21 years (!) 
So "Let's keep this party POLITE" - when it came to Moon missions, NASA is slightly more energetic than Russia but not MUCH

[fregate]

I highly recommend you to browse through pages of this book (unfortunately only in Russian)
ПИЛОТИРУЕМАЯ ЭКСПЕДИЦИЯ НА МАРС
Под ред. А.С. Коротеева.– М.: Российская академия космонавтики имени К.Э. Циолковского, 2006.
MANNED MISSION TO MARS - Ed. A.S. Koroteev - Moscow, Russian Tsiolkovsky's Academy of Cosmonautics, 2006 
Courtesy of Russian Federal space agency - Hi-Res PDF links (by chapters) are available here
Anatoly Zak dedicated a whole chapter V to Mars Manned exploration plans in his book "Russia in Space" (Second edition currently in print)

[fregate]

You also could download book Korolev's Martian Project by Vladimir Bugrov:
fb2 format
djvu format
OR read online

[fregate]

Translation of the first slide

[Dalhousie]

I note that this week 30 years have passed since Soviet/Russia sent any spacecraft to any celestial object. Vega 1 and 2 in year 1984 were launched December 15 and 21 to Venus and Halley's comet. 30 years! And nothing on the schedule until the 2020's.

You are mixing USSR and Russia USSR ceased to exist in 1991, Russia attempted two Martian missions (both failed in 1996 and 2011), AFAIK they are planning mission to SEL-1 and proposed quite comprehensive Deep Space and Lunar Exploration program (to be approved by Russian government in order to get funding). And you would be surprised how many Russian devices flew with NASA and European missions. Even Chinese lunar mission had Russian plutonium-based power unit. But it probably a topic for separate discussion.

Of course Russia was just occupied by the commies (as could the US become, beware!). But the space agency stayed much the same during the transition since it is difficult to make natural science and engineering political. Did any Russian components really make an interplanetary journey since 1984? The Chinese thus far mostly just copy old Soviet technology. Chang'e 3 has plutonium for heating only, not for any generation of electric power. And however could the Russians reach SEL-1? Not even SLS+Orion can do that. Yet another Russian fantasy which (won't) happen next decade. They simply say that they will do what others will do, but it never happens. The interplanetary part of the Russian space program consists of a phone and a typewriter. They never deliver.

Let's try to be fair and objective and check the facts:
- USSR did not have a national space agency, Russia has it - Russian Federal Space Agency (aka ROSKOSMOS or before ROSAviaKosmos) since 1992;
- Russian ROBOTIC (non manned) mission to reach SEL-2 (my mistake not SEL-1) is Spektr-RG X-Ray spacecraft (scheduled for 2016)

Before making any BIG POLITICAL STATEMENTS please do your homework and find out about the following events:
- which LV/Space Tug send Mars Express to Mars transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Mars orbit) in Jun 2003?
- which LV/Space Tug send Venus Express to to Venus transfer orbit (before spacecraft reach Venus  orbit) in Nov 2005?
- which LV/space Tug send Gaia unmanned space observatory of the European Space Agency (ESA) into SEL-2 transfer orbit before it reach final destination in Jan 2014?

I found Russian space program fascinating - they always deliver  their projects (subject to funding, of course). You are entitle to your personal opinion, but without facts it does not hold ANY value. Please refrain from POLITICAL likes and dislikes.
Absence of Russian interplanetary missions IMHO is a price country decided to pay in order to sustain their manned space exploration in place within constrained funding situation and keep delivering INTERNATIONAL crews to ISS (Russian, American, European crew members).       

"Political statement"? I just said that the Russians were occupied by the commies during most of the last century. Is that controversial???

I would suggest that expressions like "occupied by commies" went out in the 1950s.

You assessment of the Chinese space program is also almost  completely divorced from reality.

I suggest you take your views on China to the Chinese section and the outdated political invective elsewhere completely.

[Mark S]

A few questions:

1. Why is the TMK stack launched from Earth in a retrograde orbit? Doesn't that have a massive payload penalty?
2. Is the sun shield designed to focus the Sun's already-intense light on the TMK core? It looks like a giant reflector dish, and some of the pictures show it facing the sun, but others show it facing away.
3. If the TMK is shielded from the sun, then the crew return Soyuz is directly and continuously exposed to the Sun.
4. The picture seems to indicate that assembly takes place at SEL1, not at EML2.

This is all very confusing to me. I should go back a re-read the CONOPS, because so far it is making no sense. And even if it did make sense, I am having trouble seeing the benefit to be gained from such a mission. Couldn't they do the exact same mission, one year autonomous flight, in LEO, or even EML1/2?

Thanks!

[asmi]

At some point I was interested in what kind of research has been done in psychological and behavioral aspects of the spaceflight, and many papers I came across note that many space flyers dating back as far as Salyut missions mentioned psychological importance of being able to look at the Earth. And many theorize that this might become a big problem for long duration deep space missions, where crew won't be able to see the home planet. This proposed mission will be able confirm or deny that thesis without risking a mission too much as the station will still be relatively close, and the crew can be brought back rather quickly.

[Lar]

"occupied by commies" is not helpful phrasing. Please leave politics out, and stay on the topic of the thread.

I've not deleted anything. Yet.

[fregate]

A few questions:

1. Why is the TMK stack launched from Earth in a retrograde orbit? Doesn't that have a massive payload penalty?
2. Is the sun shield designed to focus the Sun's already-intense light on the TMK core? It looks like a giant reflector dish, and some of the pictures show it facing the sun, but others show it facing away.
3. If the TMK is shielded from the sun, then the crew return Soyuz is directly and continuously exposed to the Sun.
4. The picture seems to indicate that assembly takes place at SEL1, not at EML2.

This is all very confusing to me. I should go back a re-read the CONOPS, because so far it is making no sense. And even if it did make sense, I am having trouble seeing the benefit to be gained from such a mission. Couldn't they do the exact same mission, one year autonomous flight, in LEO, or even EML1/2?

Thanks!

@Mark S - my answers for your questions:
1. Uninhibited fantasy of illustrator - should be standard orbit (not retrograde one). Well spotted!

2, 3 I agree - shield suppose to protect all parts of mission stack (aka MTK), creators of "Sunshine" did much better job in 2007 but their spaceship was much closer to the Sun For this mission heliocentric orbit is closer by 0.01 au comparing with Earth orbit around Sun (1 au). Therefore MTK does not require a giant shield.

4. Regarding location of MTK construction site this is just variation of the theme - IMHO EML-2 is more accessible by Assemblers and Testers crews (means CHEAPER to build) if you have an OPSEK asset deployed there. Really depends how long it takes to assemble and test full stack. Considering the pace of ISS progress it could take years before TMK would be ready.

CONOPS was written by me based on my best judgement of three articles and two books - it's not an official mission profile.

Such mission would be a definitely a stepping stone to Human Deep space exploration, unlocking a REAL opportunity to either of the following manned missions:
- Venus flyby
- Mars flyby
- Venus orbital mission
- Martian orbital mission
- Martial moons mission (Phobos and/or Deimos)

It would provide a proof that both hardware and crew could endure interplanetary missions with duration up to one year, and validate EDL system for velocities bigger than required for return leg of journey from cis-lunar space, while maintaining " a safety net" of a relatively close distance from Earth for the whole mission duration.

Would you like to calculate a TOF from SEL-1 to 200 km LEO or to EML-2 to "share with a class" what would be a duration for a return journey to Earth in case of mission abort scenario?

[Vultur]

If this were really to happen/be funded, who would make the decision, and when would it likely be made/announced?

[fregate]

If this were really to happen/be funded, who would make the decision, and when would it likely be made/announced?

@Vultur - obviously such mission must be included in Federal Space Program (and before that it MUST pass a feasibility study by TsNIIMash), and should be endorsed by both Roskosmos's Strategic Planning and Human Spaceflight Program directorates. It could be announced even today (subject of funding),but IMHO such mission would not happened before 2025.
It might also provide a good objective for qualifying flights for New Generation Manned Transportation Vehicle PTK NP (personally I do not believe in Deep Space version of Soyuz) , SHLV rocket  (decision to be made in Jan 2015) and cryogenic space tug for such mission (KVSTK - a HydroLOX space tug of super heavy class). We'll see - just watch this space!
Ironically in 1988 USSR was closer to fulfil such mission (when Energia LV flew first time)

[asmi]

I've done some back-of-the-envelope calculations - assumed Keplerian orbit with apogee at the SEL2 (1.496*10^9 m) and perigee of 200 km, and I got about 37.5 days from SEL2 to LEO (half of the period). If my understanding of Newton laws in regards to Lagrange points is correct, in reality this trip will take somewhat less time, but it's still about a month.

[fregate]

I've done some back-of-the-envelope calculations - assumed Keplerian orbit with apogee at the SEL2 (1.496*10^9 m) and perigee of 200 km, and I got about 37.5 days from SEL2 to LEO (half of the period). If my understanding of Newton laws in regards to Lagrange points is correct, in reality this trip will take somewhat less time, but it's still about a month.

Good, but we need either SEL-1 to 200 km circular LEO or SEL-1 to EML-2. Please refer to Brauning Orbital Mechanic web site (it has a good example of Hohman transfer http://www.braeunig.us/space/problem.htm Problem 4.20) 
I am sorry but I would be busy translating other slides.   

[asmi]

Good, but we need either SEL-1 to 200 km circular LEO or SEL-1 to EML-2. Please refer to Brauning Orbital Mechnic web (it has a good example of Hohman transfer http://www.braeunig.us/space/problem.htm Problem 4.20) 
I am sorry but I would be busy translating other slides.   

It's too much for me at midnight - will take a look tomorrow But since SEL1 is approximately the same distance from the Earth as SEL2 is, the number above would serve as a good rough estimate.

[fregate]

Good, but we need either SEL-1 to 200 km circular LEO or SEL-1 to EML-2. Please refer to Brauning Orbital Mechnic web (it has a good example of Hohman transfer http://www.braeunig.us/space/problem.htm Problem 4.20) 
I am sorry but I would be busy translating other slides.   

It's too much for me at midnight - will take a look tomorrow But since SEL1 is approximately the same distance from the Earth as SEL2 is, the number above would serve as a good rough estimate.

Plus/Minus - in this case rather Plus, but "Close enough"

[fregate]

V.Bugrov presentation slides on annual Korolev Readings in Bauman Technical University in Jan 2015 - compliments of Alexander Ilin (Luna-7 Team Manager)