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#60
by
Rocket Science
on 04 Dec, 2014 16:42
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A second article from Businessweek with an interesting claim:
Businessweek - Why NASA's Orion Spacecraft Looks So Familiar
"Orion is roughly three times larger than the Apollo crew module, built to carry four astronauts as far as Mars, a 70-million mile round-trip journey that could take as much as 23 months."
It's amazing the pervasiveness of this meme.
The sadder part is that NASA itself perpetuates that meme, oversimplifying the fact that Orion is only the general command and reentry spacecraft, not the mission extended excursion mode.
I'll take that a step further... Orion/SLS is considered a complete system just like STS....
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#61
by
jimvela
on 04 Dec, 2014 17:11
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A second article from Businessweek with an interesting claim:
Businessweek - Why NASA's Orion Spacecraft Looks So Familiar
"Orion is roughly three times larger than the Apollo crew module, built to carry four astronauts as far as Mars, a 70-million mile round-trip journey that could take as much as 23 months."
It's amazing the pervasiveness of this meme.
The sadder part is that NASA itself perpetuates that meme, oversimplifying the fact that Orion is only the general command and reentry spacecraft, not the mission extended excursion mode.
Lockheed Martin also perpetuates this myth. There are radio ads running here in Colorado proclaiming that this is the spacecraft that will take us to mars... Not quite false, not quite true...
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#62
by
jtrame
on 04 Dec, 2014 17:16
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When it does take off, it is predictable that the NASA announcer will say something like "Liftoff of Orion, the spacecraft that will take us to Mars." They have a tradition of saying something dramatic (and usually corny) every time.
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#63
by
Hog
on 04 Dec, 2014 18:08
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Orion is part of the system for BEO exploration.
NASA is aware of its audience, and is targetting its message. Everyone here has to remember that we are of the upper echelon of space travel knowledge, the average common person doesnt have the same space knowledge base that we do(we as in typical NSFer's).
A large majority dont know what Orion is, and even less would be able to differentiate a service module from the control/re-entry capsule. We NSF'ers are an extreme niche minority.
Know your target audience, tailor your message to THEM. The Exploration Design Challenge which reached 127,000 students, the Orion Boarding Pass drive that had 1.3 million participants, and NASA's drive to reach the masses via social media(special viewing tickets for NON-media that possess a social media following). These efforts are evidence of NASA's efforts to create an interest in HSF by inspiring people, young and old.
I enjoy the supposed "corny launch commentary". I wish we had more opportunities to hear those iconic launch vocals.
Everyones a critic, such negativity.....
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#64
by
newpylong
on 04 Dec, 2014 18:16
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Some of you guys are too much.
"Orion won't get us to Mars alone, NASA is lying."
As the previous person wrote, they know their audience and they explaining it simply and drumming excitement up in the best way possible.
Administration officials have been asked repeatedly in the last few days by the media this very question and they have always replied that Orion will be paired with other modules in the future.
Quit the nitpicking and enjoy the launch.
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#65
by
hcm
on 04 Dec, 2014 18:36
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Hear, hear. Enjoy the launch. It's amazing what humans (engineers!) can do, and I'm happy for it to be corny if that helps people appreciate it
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#66
by
edkyle99
on 04 Dec, 2014 18:51
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Agreed that it's a sensible set of test goals, but considering the booster alone is more than 1/3 of a billion bucks, I too am disappointed (as a taxpayer) that they could not cram a few more tests in.
These things are going to carry people! They should wring them out, piece by piece, for as long as it takes and for as much as it costs, before anyone is strapped into one.
Before astronauts prepared to fly an Apollo, NASA launched four unmanned Apollo spacecraft, five boilerplate Apollos, and 15 unmanned Saturn rockets. Six of those were suborbital missions that lasted a half-hour or less. And guess what? That still wasn't enough, because then the AS-201 fire happened.
No, NASA should fly as many tests as its most conservative engineering calls for. Then it should fly a few more just to be sure. Any decision maker who balks at the cost should be escorted to view the STS-107 debris, or equivalent.
- Ed Kyle
I think you've got this backwards. I'm suggesting *more* tests, and you are suggesting fewer. In practice, you've got a budget, and you can only afford a certain number of (expensive) flight tests. So to your point, you should have enough flight tests to convince yourself it's safe (safe enough, not perfectly safe). But to my point, once your flight test schedule is determined, you should cram each flight test with as many tests as possible (this was the "all-up" testing of Apollo, which was considered radical at the time).
I'm moving this here from the pre-launch update thread.
EFT-1 is an example of an early test. The idea is to accomplish what can be accomplished now. Right now there is a basic CM and LAS, etc, that can be tested. Right now there is
not a Service Module - and there won't be one for four more years or so. EFT-1 is the test that can be performed now, and I believe that it includes all of the testing that is reasonably possible at this time.
I think you'll find that I am in favor of more testing. Some have suggested that I support
too much testing. Perhaps. I have to admit that I would have supported the Project Mercury decision to send up just one more primate before Mr. Shepard, I would have had serious reservations about sending Apollo 8 on its way when it went, and I'm still having trouble getting over STS-1!
- Ed Kyle
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#67
by
MikeEndeavor23
on 04 Dec, 2014 19:46
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Hi all!
Can anyone speculate why we only have 1 test flight for Orion? Shouldn't we be doing more than one test flight? Since the Space Shuttle had technically, 4 test flights?
Just a thought....
MikeEndeavour23
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#68
by
Eagandale4114
on 04 Dec, 2014 19:53
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Hi all!
Can anyone speculate why we only have 1 test flight for Orion? Shouldn't we be doing more than one test flight? Since the Space Shuttle had technically, 4 test flights?
Just a thought....
MikeEndeavour23
Well there will be another unmanned flight Orion EM - 1 that is slated for 2018 that will be another test for Orion and a test for the SLS system.
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#69
by
Svetoslav
on 04 Dec, 2014 19:53
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Hello,
There's gong to be one more test flight, unmanned, to circumlunar space in 2018.
And, we have to remember the Space Shuttle NEVER EVER had an unmanned test flight
Best wishes!
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#70
by
jtrame
on 04 Dec, 2014 22:56
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I find it completely absurd that American people can not grasp the need for a hab module on such a long journey. Why not be upfront about it? You might be surprised.
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#71
by
a_langwich
on 04 Dec, 2014 23:13
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I find it completely absurd that American people can not grasp the need for a hab module on such a long journey. Why not be upfront about it? You might be surprised.
NASA has been "up front" about it, and has been relatively clear, if you listen to them. The problem is that you are wanting the full, hour-long, detailed discussion in an "elevator talk" designed to cover the most important points in 30 seconds. Also, the point is to focus on today's mission, and the part being tested today is Orion, not SLS, not a service module, not a habitation module, not a lander, not some other piece of future hardware. Orion.
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#72
by
dvdt
on 04 Dec, 2014 23:28
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Hi,
Could anyone kindly point me to a ground track for the re-entry? I'm wondering if it will be visible from Honolulu.
Thanks!
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#73
by
edkyle99
on 04 Dec, 2014 23:49
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Hi,
Could anyone kindly point me to a ground track for the re-entry? I'm wondering if it will be visible from Honolulu.
Thanks!
The NASA Press Kit has a crude orbit trace map on page 10. It seems to show that your best bet might be a look at the second stage reentry, which should be north east of Hawaii, but may be too far away at about 30 N 150W. CM reentry looks to be far to the east, and it will be daylight.
- Ed Kyle
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#74
by
Coastal Ron
on 05 Dec, 2014 00:03
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The sadder part is that NASA itself perpetuates that meme, oversimplifying the fact that Orion is only the general command and reentry spacecraft, not the mission extended excursion mode.
I'll take that a step further... Orion/SLS is considered a complete system just like STS....
Sure the Orion/SLS is a complete system, but only if the destination is within the Earth-Moon area.
I think the best analogy is that we'll be going to Mars in ships, but the Orion is like the boat ships use to get passengers and crew to shore. It's a short-range transport vehicle that is carried by larger vehicles.
Saying the Orion is taking us to Mars is like saying the Soyuz spacecraft is a research space station whenever it docks at the ISS...
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#75
by
Lee Jay
on 05 Dec, 2014 00:08
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Valves aren't going to be replaced
Exercised? Lubricated? Purged?
Just hope they work?
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#76
by
rsnellenberger
on 05 Dec, 2014 00:13
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When it does take off, it is predictable that the NASA announcer will say something like "Liftoff of Orion, the spacecraft that will take us to Mars." They have a tradition of saying something dramatic (and usually corny) every time.
"Liftoff of Orion, the spacecraft that we will haul to Mars and back" doesn't have quite the same ring to it...
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#77
by
Eagandale4114
on 05 Dec, 2014 01:39
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Valves aren't going to be replaced
Exercised? Lubricated? Purged?
Just hope they work?
Heck call in the exorcist if need be.
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#78
by
dvdt
on 05 Dec, 2014 03:13
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Hi,
Could anyone kindly point me to a ground track for the re-entry? I'm wondering if it will be visible from Honolulu.
Thanks!
The NASA Press Kit has a crude orbit trace map on page 10. It seems to show that your best bet might be a look at the second stage reentry, which should be north east of Hawaii, but may be too far away at about 30 N 150W. CM reentry looks to be far to the east, and it will be daylight.
- Ed Kyle
Thanks, Ed Kyle!
That would put the second stage re-entry at around 5 degrees elevation at a range of 670 nmi, and the command module even worse (1600 nmi). Doesn't look like I'll be able to see either from Honolulu.
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#79
by
sdsds
on 05 Dec, 2014 03:42
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Valves aren't going to be replaced
Exercised? Lubricated? Purged?
Just hope they work?
Speculatively, the root cause of the valve stickiness might be insufficient dry nitrogen purging before they became cold. The solution might just be to turn up the flow (or dryness) of the purge gas. Did any of the meteorologic people comment on e.g. ambient humidity?
