Intuitive Machines Terrestrial Return Vehicle (TRV)

[mr. mark]

Looks like there will be a new commercial partner for ISS. Including reentry vehicle coming in 2016!

"The lift-to-drag ratio of the TRV airframe enables superior range and cross range capability compared to a capsule and thus, more landing opportunities with a reduced entry g-load. It contains all of the necessary subsystems for protecting the payload during the return and delivering it accurately to a landing location such as a dry lakebed, where it can be readily retrieved. Once recovered, the payload will be removed from the TRV and delivered to the customer."

Source: http://www.parabolicarc.com/2014/10/17/intuitive-machines-funded-iss-sample-return-vehicle/

[jongoff]

I haven't heard much about this group before, but their idea is close to what we were looking at as a simplest practical µRV. The CASIS unsolicited proposal doesn't sound like it covers development costs, and I'd be surprised if that was less than $2-5M. So it'll be interesting to see if they have the resources to pull this off. I hope so, because it would be really useful for the ISS.

~Jon

[Robotbeat]

I haven't heard much about this group before, but their idea is close to what we were looking at as a simplest practical µRV. The CASIS unsolicited proposal doesn't sound like it covers development costs, and I'd be surprised if that was less than $2-5M. So it'll be interesting to see if they have the resources to pull this off. I hope so, because it would be really useful for the ISS.

~Jon

Interesting. Nice thing about this is that it develops the reentry technology that's critical for a full RLV, and it does it at a scale that you, Jon, think is about right for an initial RLV capability (say, if you need propellant or something).

[sdsds]

Wow. Capable of "propulsive maneuver for de-orbit" and "stored in the habitable volume of the ISS." Wouldn't have thought those two features would go together easily....

[enkarha]

Wow. Capable of "propulsive maneuver for de-orbit" and "stored in the habitable volume of the ISS." Wouldn't have thought those two features would go together easily....

There are cold gas(CO₂) thrusters and refill tanks inside the ISS, see SPHERES.

[Robotbeat]

Wow. Capable of "propulsive maneuver for de-orbit" and "stored in the habitable volume of the ISS." Wouldn't have thought those two features would go together easily....

There are cold gas(CO₂) thrusters and refill tanks inside the ISS, see SPHERES.

Yeah, but precision deorbit requires ~100m/s delta-v. For cold gas thrusters with their Isp in the ~30-60s range, that's a huge deal. You'd need a LOT of CO2 and very heavy tanks. Not saying it can't be done, but it's not trivial.

[jongoff]

Wow. Capable of "propulsive maneuver for de-orbit" and "stored in the habitable volume of the ISS." Wouldn't have thought those two features would go together easily....

There are cold gas(CO₂) thrusters and refill tanks inside the ISS, see SPHERES.

Yeah, but precision deorbit requires ~100m/s delta-v. For cold gas thrusters with their Isp in the ~30-60s range, that's a huge deal. You'd need a LOT of CO2 and very heavy tanks. Not saying it can't be done, but it's not trivial.

It's more like ~60m/s for a maneuvering entry vehicle. They've got a lifting body too, so that can compensate for some dispersions. You can do that with cold gas, and I'm 95% sure that's how they'll do it. There are some semi-warm gas approaches (Tridyne/Nitrodyne) that are safe and can work--the oxygen and hydrogen are diluted so far with the carrier gas that they can't ignite except on a catalyst bed. I was looking at some other options...

~Jon

[Robotbeat]

This is relevant: http://blog.altius-space.com/2011/02/iss-micro-return-vehicle-concept/
Almost like they ripped off your idea, Jon. (That, or JSC's idea.)


...either way, fascinating how ISS is actually becoming something a lot more interesting than anyone would've guessed 10 years ago. I mean, Nanoracks has launched a heck of a lot of nanosats. A whole constellation for Planetlabs, even.

[ChrisWilson68]

This or something like it seems like a good idea.

It kind of takes the wind out of the argument for a cargo version of Dream Chaser to compete for CRS2, though.  Low-g and cross range like Dream Chaser, but the small scale is much better because it allows frequent small deliveries timed based on the needs of individual experiments.

[Zed_Noir]

How is the Intuitive Machines ISS RV defined by ITARS? Is it consider munitions to be regulated by ITARS?

[Nomadd]

 Modern version of the film bucket?

[Jeff Lerner]

"....this small payload return capability will provide controlled conditions and flexible choices for timely sample analysis."

Small Payload ??....looks very small from the pictures.....what kind of experiments on ISS would use and pay for this return capability vs. just waiting for a Cargo Dragon to do the job ??

[Steam Chaser]

I haven't heard much about this group before, but their idea is close to what we were looking at as a simplest practical µRV. The CASIS unsolicited proposal doesn't sound like it covers development costs, and I'd be surprised if that was less than $2-5M. So it'll be interesting to see if they have the resources to pull this off. I hope so, because it would be really useful for the ISS.

~Jon

I've been a fan of the idea of a micro reentry vehicle, so I did some Google searches.  According to some articles and press releases, they're a subsidiary of SGT that started about a year ago with 12 to 15 JSC employees headed by former JSC Deputy Directory Steve Altemus working in aerospace, energy, and medical fields.  In aerospace, they have a contract with Deep Space Systems (Littleton, CO) to work for Lockheed Martin on things like Orion, GOES-R weather satellite program, and planetary science missions InSight and OSIRIS-REx.  Their part of that is worth up to $10M.  Their articles make it sound like their style is to be a think tank and contract out for parts of jobs that require lots of facilities, etc.  Based on all that, my guess is that they have connections that will make it somewhat easier to raise funds than most startups, at least up to a point.

[Robotbeat]

How is the Intuitive Machines ISS RV defined by ITARS? Is it consider munitions to be regulated by ITARS?

Isn't everything, these days? You'd have a really hard time selling just cubesat parts in the US without running in to eyeTAR, let alone a guided reentry vehicle.

[Danderman]

IIRC, de-orbit from 400 km altitude is about 100 meters/second, just to drop the perigee down to 40 km or so. This does not count any maneuvering requirements for the propulsion system, but these may be performed by shifting the c/g, which should be accomplished by the ACS, which should share the same cold gas reservoir as the main thrusters(a unified propulsion system).

So, let's run the numbers. Let's say the de-orbit mass is 100 kg (maybe half a cubic meter in volume). The cold gas ISP is 50 meters/second. The requirement is 100 meters/second velocity change. The required prop mass is 18.5 kg, which is doable.

Another way to solve the problem is to deploy from ISS, spend a month or two drifting down, and then the perigee drop isn't from 400 km to 40 km, but rather from less than 200 km altitude. Of course, the long dwell time in orbit means requirements for power for internal systems and refrigeration for samples, so it is probably not a viable option.

[Bob Shaw]

Must be a lot of old MIRV bodies out there already, just aching to be turned into mini Space Clippers. Putin would wet himself, though...

[Robotbeat]

Must be a lot of old MIRV bodies out there already, just aching to be turned into mini Space Clippers. Putin would wet himself, though...

Different requirements. MIRVs want to penetrate deep into the atmosphere without slowing down, but this is supposed to glide slowly to a landing, slowing down high in the atmosphere.

[Bob Shaw]

Must be a lot of old MIRV bodies out there already, just aching to be turned into mini Space Clippers. Putin would wet himself, though...

Different requirements. MIRVs want to penetrate deep into the atmosphere without slowing down, but this is supposed to glide slowly to a landing, slowing down high in the atmosphere.

Interesting point - I always assumed that terminal velocity would be relatively slow for MIRVs, high subsonic or thereabouts, which isn't too different to an object that's 'flying' to a landing (I say 'flying' because most returning vehicles fly in exactly the way which a brick doesn't (to quote Douglas Adams, almost)).

[Danderman]

IIRC, de-orbit from 400 km altitude is about 100 meters/second, just to drop the perigee down to 40 km or so. This does not count any maneuvering requirements for the propulsion system, but these may be performed by shifting the c/g, which should be accomplished by the ACS, which should share the same cold gas reservoir as the main thrusters(a unified propulsion system).

So, let's run the numbers. Let's say the de-orbit mass is 100 kg (maybe half a cubic meter in volume). The cold gas ISP is 50 seconds. The requirement is 100 meters/second velocity change. The required prop mass is 18.5 kg, which is doable.

Another way to solve the problem is to deploy from ISS, spend a month or two drifting down, and then the perigee drop isn't from 400 km to 40 km, but rather from less than 200 km altitude. Of course, the long dwell time in orbit means requirements for power for internal systems and refrigeration for samples, so it is probably not a viable option.

[mr. mark]