Author Topic: Scaling Agriculture on Mars  (Read 244122 times)

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1320 on: 01/30/2019 09:18 pm »
How Do Plants Grow in Space?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/plants-flowers-international-space-station-moon-mars/581491/

From the article:
Quote

For NASA, the growth chambers on the space station are the predecessors of extraterrestrial farms beyond Earth. If human beings ever travel to another planet, they will need enough food for the journey. NASA has spent years perfecting thermo-stabilized or freeze-dried entrées and snacks for astronauts on the International Space Station, from scrambled eggs to chicken teriyaki. The meals are meant to last, but they wouldn’t survive the long journey to Mars, says Julie Robinson, the chief scientist for the International Space Station.


Offline Lar

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1321 on: 01/31/2019 03:13 am »
How Do Plants Grow in Space?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/plants-flowers-international-space-station-moon-mars/581491/

From the article:
Quote

For NASA, the growth chambers on the space station are the predecessors of extraterrestrial farms beyond Earth. If human beings ever travel to another planet, they will need enough food for the journey. NASA has spent years perfecting thermo-stabilized or freeze-dried entrées and snacks for astronauts on the International Space Station, from scrambled eggs to chicken teriyaki. The meals are meant to last, but they wouldn’t survive the long journey to Mars, says Julie Robinson, the chief scientist for the International Space Station.


How long does she think the journey would be? We're not looking at years if it's SS/SH.. more like 3-6 months at most. I agree that grow your own is vital but not because the food wouldn't keep.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online lamontagne

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1322 on: 01/31/2019 04:24 am »
How Do Plants Grow in Space?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/plants-flowers-international-space-station-moon-mars/581491/

From the article:
Quote

For NASA, the growth chambers on the space station are the predecessors of extraterrestrial farms beyond Earth. If human beings ever travel to another planet, they will need enough food for the journey. NASA has spent years perfecting thermo-stabilized or freeze-dried entrées and snacks for astronauts on the International Space Station, from scrambled eggs to chicken teriyaki. The meals are meant to last, but they wouldn’t survive the long journey to Mars, says Julie Robinson, the chief scientist for the International Space Station.


How long does she think the journey would be? We're not looking at years if it's SS/SH.. more like 3-6 months at most. I agree that grow your own is vital but not because the food wouldn't keep.
It's a strange quote.  What's supposed to spoil the food?  I guess there must have been some misunderstanding, or she's never heard of Spam,  not the new kind, the old kind :-)
Ration packs, good for 3 to 5 years...
''An MRE will store for about 5 years, if stored at 75° F or less. The cooler the temperature, the longer they will store. Some items in an MRE will last longer than 5 years, although the wet pack entrees typically expire within 5 years''.

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1323 on: 02/04/2019 05:25 pm »
How Do Plants Grow in Space?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/plants-flowers-international-space-station-moon-mars/581491/

From the article:
Quote

For NASA, the growth chambers on the space station are the predecessors of extraterrestrial farms beyond Earth. If human beings ever travel to another planet, they will need enough food for the journey. NASA has spent years perfecting thermo-stabilized or freeze-dried entrées and snacks for astronauts on the International Space Station, from scrambled eggs to chicken teriyaki. The meals are meant to last, but they wouldn’t survive the long journey to Mars, says Julie Robinson, the chief scientist for the International Space Station.


How long does she think the journey would be? We're not looking at years if it's SS/SH.. more like 3-6 months at most. I agree that grow your own is vital but not because the food wouldn't keep.
It's a strange quote.  What's supposed to spoil the food?  I guess there must have been some misunderstanding, or she's never heard of Spam,  not the new kind, the old kind :-)
Ration packs, good for 3 to 5 years...
''An MRE will store for about 5 years, if stored at 75° F or less. The cooler the temperature, the longer they will store. Some items in an MRE will last longer than 5 years, although the wet pack entrees typically expire within 5 years''.

I think it's supposed to be radiation, which does spoil food faster. Some cans are known to have 10 or even 15 years life time.

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1324 on: 02/04/2019 05:29 pm »
Can China grow a flower on the moon? The countdown begins

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/2181971/can-china-grow-flower-moon-countdown-begins

Chang'e 4 includes a mini biological lab with plants and silkworms

More information from the same experiments, which BTW has absolutely nothing to do with solar concentrators: the canister included seeds of cotton, rapeseed (a.k.a. canola), potato and arabidiopsis, but only cotton sprouted. It is of variety CCRI 41, which is a transgenic insect resistant variety. Being transgenic means that its cottonseed oil is not considered fit for human consumption

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1325 on: 02/19/2019 09:29 pm »
Purdue student chosen as finalist in NASA greenhouse challenge:

https://www.purdueexponent.org/campus/article_c9770c32-960c-5410-a80b-5b71ca887b13.html

Quote

According to Torres, during the first stage, they would cultivate easy-to-grow plants such as microgreens. He also said that in the midterm stage, they would grow crops like tomatoes and peppers. Finally, they would do long-term research on Mars soil to create a full-scale greenhouse.


Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1326 on: 03/06/2019 09:04 pm »
Preparing Plants For Space

http://spaceref.com/space-biology/preparing-plants-for-space.html

It's basically a picture from the earth copy of VEGGIE, preparing for VEG-04B

Offline Paul451

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1327 on: 04/06/2019 03:27 am »
How Do Plants Grow in Space?
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/01/plants-flowers-international-space-station-moon-mars/581491/
From the article:
Quote

The meals are meant to last, but they wouldn’t survive the long journey to Mars, says Julie Robinson, the chief scientist for the International Space Station.
How long does she think the journey would be? We're not looking at years if it's SS/SH.. more like 3-6 months at most. I agree that grow your own is vital but not because the food wouldn't keep.
It's a strange quote.  What's supposed to spoil the food?  I guess there must have been some misunderstanding, or she's never heard of Spam,  not the new kind, the old kind :-)
Ration packs, good for 3 to 5 years...
''An MRE will store for about 5 years, if stored at 75° F or less. The cooler the temperature, the longer they will store. Some items in an MRE will last longer than 5 years, although the wet pack entrees typically expire within 5 years''.

Healthy food spoils. You can't live for a NASA planned mission lengths on just MREs.

Her team has been researching this for years. They keep various meals in storage for various times then check them for taste/nutrients/rancidity/other-spoilage. It's an issue. They're not just making crap up.

That said, IAUI they aren't allowed to assume freezers will be available. (Same with ISS food storage.) So everything has to store at room temp or worse. I assume having enough power/thermal excess to run food freezers would make things easier.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1328 on: 04/06/2019 05:10 am »
It's a strange quote.  What's supposed to spoil the food?  I guess there must have been some misunderstanding, or she's never heard of Spam,  not the new kind, the old kind :-)
Ration packs, good for 3 to 5 years...
''An MRE will store for about 5 years, if stored at 75° F or less. The cooler the temperature, the longer they will store. Some items in an MRE will last longer than 5 years, although the wet pack entrees typically expire within 5 years''.

It is a NASA thing. They set arbitrary requirements and then stick to them no matter if they are achievable or not. As far as I understand they demand 5 years shelf life because they assume pre positioning of supplies. They also demand that no food supplements be used. Nutrition must be from the food packs alone. Some things like vitamins deteriorate to some extent over that period. So either they are quite high at the beginning or they are low at the end of the shelf life.

It could easily be remedied by adding food supplements to the diet near the end of the mission but see requirements as above.

Edit: Or maybe it is a political thing. They really want the greenhouse, which makes sense, but fear that this would be the first item cut from financing if they don't invent a hard requirement for it.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2019 05:27 am by guckyfan »

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1329 on: 04/06/2019 04:03 pm »
That said, IAUI they aren't allowed to assume freezers will be available. (Same with ISS food storage.) So everything has to store at room temp or worse. I assume having enough power/thermal excess to run food freezers would make things easier.

Keeping food frozen at very low power requirements should be a readily solvable problem on Mars!

Offline Paul451

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1330 on: 04/06/2019 07:04 pm »
That said, IAUI they aren't allowed to assume freezers will be available. (Same with ISS food storage.) So everything has to store at room temp or worse. I assume having enough power/thermal excess to run food freezers would make things easier.
Keeping food frozen at very low power requirements should be a readily solvable problem on Mars!

"On" is not "there and back again". Which is apparently the issue.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2019 07:05 pm by Paul451 »

Offline spacenut

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1331 on: 04/06/2019 09:16 pm »
I know Vietnam veterans who ate C-rations with date stamped 1943 or 1944.  Food in cans can keep indefinately, but the vitamins only last about 2 years.  They also gave them multi-vitamins.  Canned foods would be heavy for space travel, but doable.  Freeze dried foods would have to have water added, so it may be a trade off.  Tons of dry food could be shipped to Mars and reconstituted using Martian water.  Also, tons of seeds of all types could be sent for greenhouse farming on Mars. 

Online DistantTemple

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1332 on: 04/12/2019 11:05 pm »
Potatoes on Mars - NASA study in Peru.

A quick look at this link and I quickly realised that the researcher is talking about OUTSIDE... potentially... The potato variety he specifically mentions grows at 4,500m in Peru... and in the experiment will be cryogenically frozen for 6 months before being planted in dessert "soil"

  - Growing potatoes on Mars: NASA researches space farming in Peru

OK 4,500m on earth and dessert soil does not emulate Mars closely! However plants that can be grown at 4,500m equivalents... will need cheaper "greenhouses" than those that like a nice soil, temperate climate, and normal sea-level Earthian air!

Can we look forward to Agave, cactus... and other extremely hardy, or high altitude plants as the best suited to grow on Mars... and eventually be part of terraforming and greening Mars? In the future... But the Potato! amazing... and so absolutely useful!

Apologies.. I haven't checked recent posts to see if this is already posted!

On a separate note... "cans lasting forever" GreenPeace activists occupied the "Brent Spar" oil platform to stop it being dumped at sea. Apparently in the canteen they found abandoned catering cans of baked beans unused for 5 years...which made food supplies easier.

Acids in the food can attack the Tin coating making the food toxic, or the steel, however there is also an internal (plastic?) coating to stop such corrosion. If cans were intended to have an extra long shelf life I assume coatings could be to a higher spec?
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Online DistantTemple

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1333 on: 04/12/2019 11:18 pm »
I bet this one has been aired above repeatedly.

There is a strong following in healthy-food circles for "sprouting". Cress is the standard example, or "Chineese" bean sprouts. However in healthfood stores you can often buy mixtures, based mainly on mung beans.

Many (all???) beans and pulses can be sprouted. Most are absolutely delicious. They just feel crunchy, fresh, and full of life. They can be eaten when the sprouts are short, or if carefully rinsed, when green leaves have appeared. Usually the whole "plant" is eaten, but they can also be grown for longer, and cut off so you only eat the shoot and leaves, not the remains of the bean... which makes hygene, mold, and rinsing sooo much easier.

Sunflower seads can be sprouted, and the "wheatgrass" phenomena, is literally the "grass" leaves that grow from wheat.... and is considered seriously nutritious...

All these beans and pulses are normally dried, and have a long low-maintenance shelf life. They are a really low-tec way of getting carbohydrate, protein, fibre, texture... and with sprouting a fantastically tasty and nutritious fresh salad.. after a couple of years waiting for deliveries!!! 
« Last Edit: 04/12/2019 11:20 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Scaling Agriculture on Mars
« Reply #1334 on: 04/13/2019 12:33 am »
Bland foods last longer in cans than acidic foods.  Tomatoes will not last as long as say navy beans in cans.  Many acidic foods are in glass jars and will last a long time.  Pickles and any pickled foods will last longer and are packed in glass. 

After power and fuel production on Mars is installed, greenhouses will be a second must along with fertilizer production.  To begin with meat will be a luxury on Mars until small birds and animals can be brought. 

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