Author Topic: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread  (Read 396128 times)

Online eric z

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1240 on: 08/08/2018 01:34 PM »
 I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?
 Calling these programs commercial is,IMHO, just inaccurate: maybe a new term needs to be invented!

Offline su27k

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1241 on: 08/08/2018 01:40 PM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at ISS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2018 01:46 PM by su27k »

Offline Tomness

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1242 on: 08/08/2018 01:43 PM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?
 Calling these programs commercial is,IMHO, just inaccurate: maybe a new term needs to be invented!

IMO, This because Boeing would be selling a seat that they have from Roscosmos, providing Training, & Logistics for that Seat for a 6 month Rotation. Their cost goes up the CCtCAP goes up. "Commercial". Its not about the money. Its about getting Astronauts independently to ISS from U.S. on U.S. Rockets safe & timely manner. I am sure the Cosmonauts & U.S. Partner Astronauts are also eagerly waiting to fly on Commercial Crew Vehicles as well.

Offline Tomness

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1243 on: 08/08/2018 01:47 PM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at IIS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.

I don't think so, Chris Ferguson is a trained Astronaut and their is plenty for him to do. He just might get paid more for it. :D

Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1244 on: 08/08/2018 02:05 PM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at ISS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.

I think that you are right, Chris Ferguson is no longer a NASA astronaut. If he stayed 6 months on the ISS, he would have to pay for his stay. Plus, if there is already 4 astronauts on the CST-100, there would be no need for a fifth one. But right now the plan is for a short stay at the ISS and only 2 NASA astronauts (plus Chris Ferguson).

Incidentally, SpaceX also had the option of having test pilots on its demo flight but declined to do so. Under the CCtCap request for proposals, the demo flight wasn't required to go to the ISS or even have NASA astronauts. But a number of people in Congress felt that if the demo flight was going to go the ISS, it had to have some NASA astronauts on board.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2018 02:20 PM by yg1968 »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1245 on: 08/08/2018 02:51 PM »
Well, so much for diversity....

Yeah, every one of them is a military pilot.
Which presents a challenge when crew diversity is a goal.
https://www.stripes.com/lifestyle/despite-recruitment-efforts-few-black-pilots-land-in-air-force-navy-cockpits-1.11138

http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/pilots.html

Given these statistics, and the apparent desire to use military pilots, I think NASA did well to put together this group.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 08/08/2018 03:01 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1246 on: 08/08/2018 05:21 PM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at ISS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.

No.  Boeing's crewed test flight always came with a Boeing astronaut.  SpaceX could have as well but chose not too.  In fact, originally NASA astronauts did not way to fly on uncertified vehicles until they realized that people other than them would be flying into space.  So NASA then fought that the second astronaut would be a NASA one even though the flight is uncertified.  But Ferguson will be going regardless.

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1247 on: 08/08/2018 05:22 PM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at ISS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.

I think that you are right, Chris Ferguson is no longer a NASA astronaut. If he stayed 6 months on the ISS, he would have to pay for his stay. Plus, if there is already 4 astronauts on the CST-100, there would be no need for a fifth one. But right now the plan is for a short stay at the ISS and only 2 NASA astronauts (plus Chris Ferguson).

Incidentally, SpaceX also had the option of having test pilots on its demo flight but declined to do so. Under the CCtCap request for proposals, the demo flight wasn't required to go to the ISS or even have NASA astronauts. But a number of people in Congress felt that if the demo flight was going to go the ISS, it had to have some NASA astronauts on board.

Not correct.  In fact, since a Boeing astronaut is part of the package it is more like Boeing selling his time.  It is NASA saying they want a longer flight so they have to provide the supplies etc.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1248 on: 08/10/2018 04:24 AM »
I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at ISS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.

I think that you are right, Chris Ferguson is no longer a NASA astronaut. If he stayed 6 months on the ISS, he would have to pay for his stay. Plus, if there is already 4 astronauts on the CST-100, there would be no need for a fifth one. But right now the plan is for a short stay at the ISS and only 2 NASA astronauts (plus Chris Ferguson).

Incidentally, SpaceX also had the option of having test pilots on its demo flight but declined to do so. Under the CCtCap request for proposals, the demo flight wasn't required to go to the ISS or even have NASA astronauts. But a number of people in Congress felt that if the demo flight was going to go the ISS, it had to have some NASA astronauts on board.

Not correct.  In fact, since a Boeing astronaut is part of the package it is more like Boeing selling his time.  It is NASA saying they want a longer flight so they have to provide the supplies etc.

OK, I stand corrected then but that would mean 5 astronauts on the CFT flight (assuming that the CFT is required for normal crew rotation). Although it is possible, 5 seems like a crowd (on the spacecraft and ISS).
« Last Edit: 08/10/2018 04:26 AM by yg1968 »

Offline Tomness

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1249 on: 08/10/2018 04:27 PM »

OK, I stand corrected then but that would mean 5 astronauts on the CFT flight (assuming that the CFT is required for normal crew rotation). Although it is possible, 5 seems like a crowd (on the spacecraft and ISS).

Starliner can handle 7 passengers like Crew Dragon, but wouldn't really need it, there was passenger transport concept showing they could handle 9 with retrofit.  ISS can handle 8 crew and with Commercial Crew they will from 6 to 7 crews, Russians might stick with 2 during that time so that would free up a bunk. so not really big deal other than logistics of getting their supplies up there for their mission if they go that route.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1250 on: 08/22/2018 11:40 PM »
 Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1251 on: 08/23/2018 12:44 AM »
Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline Tomness

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1252 on: 08/23/2018 12:56 AM »
Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.
$85 million a seat sound fair?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1253 on: 08/23/2018 01:01 AM »
Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.
$85 million a seat sound fair?

NASA is prohibited from receiving payment for seats. Russia will have to provide "in kind contributions" for their seats :P

I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline woods170

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1254 on: 08/23/2018 07:02 AM »
NASA is prohibited from receiving payment for seats. Russia will have to provide "in kind contributions" for their seats :P

Soyuz (crew) and Progress (cargo) rides mostly.
« Last Edit: 08/23/2018 07:02 AM by woods170 »

Online envy887

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1255 on: 08/23/2018 01:25 PM »
Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.
$85 million a seat sound fair?

NASA is prohibited from receiving payment for seats. Russia will have to provide "in kind contributions" for their seats :P

SpaceX and Boeing can take payment for seats or even for entire missions.

Online gongora

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1256 on: 08/23/2018 02:50 PM »
This thread is starting to wander a bit.  The plans I've always heard are for a Russian to fly on CC vehicles and an American to continue flying on Soyuz, which would not require compensation in either direction.  Alternate possible seating arrangements and prices for non-NASA flights probably belong over in the Dragon 2 thread.

Online abaddon

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1257 on: 08/23/2018 08:04 PM »
This thread is starting to wander a bit.  The plans I've always heard are for a Russian to fly on CC vehicles and an American to continue flying on Soyuz, which would not require compensation in either direction.  Alternate possible seating arrangements and prices for non-NASA flights probably belong over in the Dragon 2 thread.
For normal operations what I've read agrees with what you've stated.

To non-answer the original question, I've never heard of any such contingency plan that was made public.  I imagine NASA might have something internally, but I can't really imagine them sharing it while we're in our whateverth year of depending on Soyuz to get to the station.

Offline jbenton

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1258 on: 08/23/2018 09:22 PM »
Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Hey guys, remember this:

http://aviationweek.com/blog/podcast-what-week-space
https://www.space.com/25718-russian-official-us-trampolines-space.html ?



That would be so ironic if Soyuz stops flying breifly while US Commercial is active.


Of course i hope that doesn't happen. The more the merrier; it'd be nice if the Russians could afford to launch 3 'nauts per Soyuz at sometime in the future

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Commercial Crew (CCtCAP) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1259 on: 08/24/2018 08:38 AM »
Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.

Yes, but as in a swap, Russians go up in Commercial Crew vehicles and Americans on Soyuz, one to one.

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