Commercial Crew - Discussion Thread 1

[Alexphysics]

Actually, NASA was considering not so long ago carrying *sometimes* a 7-member crew on a CCV where four would just go to the ISS as expedition crews and 3 of them would go just on a short visit to perform maintenance tasks such as EVA's and all of that. This would be done while another CCV is docked to the ISS and it's just a couple of weeks from departing the station. This way those three members could go down on that departing capsule. This would be great for times when they have three EVA's on a 17-day period like we have now with the battery upgrades they have at the ISS, it lets the expedition crew to focus on the science and rookie astronauts could take some experience on these short visits.

[QuantumG]

We personally know who invented the "if we could have 7 crew on ISS, we could do more work!" talking point. We know who pushed it on the hill. We know how it got to NASA and I know what their response was. If you care to look at the few times it has been brought up in hearings, you can hear the sanitised version of NASA's response. The crew size of ISS is /not/ going up.

Actually, NASA was considering not so long ago carrying *sometimes* a 7-member crew on a CCV where four would just go to the ISS as expedition crews and 3 of them would go just on a short visit to perform maintenance tasks such as EVA's and all of that.

Who? When? Where? You mean pre-shuttle cancellation? I mean, on a geological scale that's not so long ago.

[Alexphysics]

We personally know who invented the "if we could have 7 crew on ISS, we could do more work!" talking point. We know who pushed it on the hill. We know how it got to NASA and I know what their response was. If you care to look at the few times it has been brought up in hearings, you can hear the sanitised version of NASA's response. The crew size of ISS is /not/ going up.

Actually, NASA was considering not so long ago carrying *sometimes* a 7-member crew on a CCV where four would just go to the ISS as expedition crews and 3 of them would go just on a short visit to perform maintenance tasks such as EVA's and all of that.

Who? When? Where? You mean pre-shuttle cancellation? I mean, on a geological scale that's not so long ago.

ISS crew will be at 7 once the russians go with three cosmonauts to the ISS and the US has full CCV availability, the US side is already working on 4 astros at this point and has been for quite a while and they indeed perform more science than ever. And I don't know why you bring up the shuttle, I'm talking about the past recent years. And btw, shuttle cancelation was decided in 2004, that's *15* years ago.

[QuantumG]

ISS crew will be at 7 once the russians go with three cosmonauts to the ISS and the US has full CCV availability, the US side is already working on 4 astros at this point and has been for quite a while and they indeed perform more science than ever. And I don't know why you bring up the shuttle, I'm talking about the past recent years. And btw, shuttle cancelation was decided in 2004, that's *15* years ago.

Still waiting for your reference. Come on folks, if I'm so wrong it should take you ten seconds to find a primary source that proves it. You haven't provided /anything/ to support your position.

I did a little searching around myself to see if there was any recent changes I was unaware of - the last time Mr Gerstenmaier even mentioned  seven crew members was 2012. His last statement was around May of last year and there's nothing in there about it... in fact, if you read the testimony it's pretty clear that the instructions from the hill are to reduce the number of crew in anticipation of transitioning the ISS to be run commercially.

However, the key part of this activity is selling seats to foreign governments for national prestige purposes, so you'd certainly hope that eventually they'll ramp up to using all available seats. It's just unsupported to talk about it happening now, I feel.

[gongora]

The seven member crew assumes four on the US side and three on the Russian side.  The US side of the station has already been running at 4 crew on several of the recent expeditions (and is currently at 4).  Whether the Russians go back to three any time soon is questionable.

[Comga]

We personally know who invented the "if we could have 7 crew on ISS, we could do more work!" talking point. We know who pushed it on the hill. We know how it got to NASA and I know what their response was. If you care to look at the few times it has been brought up in hearings, you can hear the sanitised version of NASA's response. The crew size of ISS is /not/ going up.

Actually, NASA was considering not so long ago carrying *sometimes* a 7-member crew on a CCV where four would just go to the ISS as expedition crews and 3 of them would go just on a short visit to perform maintenance tasks such as EVA's and all of that.

Who? When? Where? You mean pre-shuttle cancellation? I mean, on a geological scale that's not so long ago.

No, QG, “we” don’t know
We help others with whatever our expertise is and rely on our colleagues with specific knowledge to help us with issues like this.
Please Tell us.
Who invented it?
Who pushed it on the Hill and in what hearing?
Citations either way would help resolve this disagreement so it doesn’t keep popping up.

[Comga]

The seven member crew assumes four on the US side and three on the Russian side.  The US side of the station has already been running at 4 crew on several of the recent expeditions (and is currently at 4).  Whether the Russians go back to three any time soon is questionable.

That begs the question.
We don’t care how many are on the Russian side
NASA would have to pay for more seats to get the US side up to 4.
They can’t do it with no-funds-exchange barter with the Russians.
We were shown costs embedded in the Commercial Crew contracts but I don’t remember if it included incremental costs for extra passengers or just totals per capsule flight.

[QuantumG]

No, QG, “we” don’t know

People who pay attention to where talking points come from know.

[punder]

Lesser mortals with less enthusiasm for dominance games would like to know, too.   

[QuantumG]

Lesser mortals with less enthusiasm for dominance games would like to know, too.   

Eric Anderson dreamt it up. Jim Muncy pushed it up the hill.

[Alexphysics]

I would like to know why you think the 7-memeber crew on the ISS is somehow "fake" or "invented". It almost looks like you're trolling us

[abaddon]

Still waiting for your reference. Come on folks, if I'm so wrong it should take you ten seconds to [deleted because I'm sick of quoting this nonsense]

I figure late February of this year should be fresh enough even for you:

CP will provide safe, reliable and cost-effective access to low-Earth orbit destinations, and it will end reliance on Russian Soyuz spacecraft. As a result, the station’s current crew of six can grow, enabling more research aboard the unique microgravity laboratory.

Fair warning, I'm going to start flagging your posts for trolling if you keep up this alternative facts discussion.

[SWGlassPit]

QuantumG must know more than NASA does then about how they plan on flying ISS.  Internal FPIP charts show 7 crew with hot handovers (meaning spikes as high as 10 or 11) beginning basically in 2020 and persisting indefinitely.

[guckyfan]

I am pretty sure Gerstenmeyer mentioned 4 US crew in the pre DM-1 press conference.

[Comga]

Still waiting for your reference. Come on folks, if I'm so wrong it should take you ten seconds to [deleted because I'm sick of quoting this nonsense]

I figure late February of this year should be fresh enough even for you:

CP will provide safe, reliable and cost-effective access to low-Earth orbit destinations, and it will end reliance on Russian Soyuz spacecraft. As a result, the station’s current crew of six can grow, enabling more research aboard the unique microgravity laboratory.

(Snip)

Good. A quote from NASA
However, that’s “public facing” which can be “aspirational”
(Like statements on sending Crew to Mars😉)
On the other hand QG named two people, who are outside advocates, but a statement isn’t invalidated by people supporting it poorly.
Do you have a link to a NASA policy or planning response, QG?

[Comga]

Internal FPIP charts show 7 crew with hot handovers (meaning spikes as high as 10 or 11) beginning basically in 2020 and persisting indefinitely.

Great, can you show us?

You know the FPIPs are in L2.
Even the latest is years old, but it was shown as SWGlassPit said, and absense of proof is not proof of absence.
Where was it said that those plans are wrong, or changed, or obviated?
It hardly makes sense once NASA has a 4 seat lifeboat, particularly if the main cost is per flight.
You could be right, and your info is regularly valuable, but you are not giving us much to go on.

[yg1968]

We personally know who invented the "if we could have 7 crew on ISS, we could do more work!" talking point. We know who pushed it on the hill. We know how it got to NASA and I know what their response was. If you care to look at the few times it has been brought up in hearings, you can hear the sanitised version of NASA's response. The crew size of ISS is /not/ going up.

Actually, NASA was considering not so long ago carrying *sometimes* a 7-member crew on a CCV where four would just go to the ISS as expedition crews and 3 of them would go just on a short visit to perform maintenance tasks such as EVA's and all of that.

Who? When? Where? You mean pre-shuttle cancellation? I mean, on a geological scale that's not so long ago.

NASA has never asked for more than 4 crew on a commercial crew spacecraft. Recently, there has been talks at the NAC HEO meeting that NASA could allow a fifth seat to be used by commercial companies for spaceflight participants. But that hasn't yet been approved.

[gongora]

If NASA wants to keep four astronauts on the US side of the station, then I'd think they would use four seats on the US vehicles.  That way they can have 1 Russian on each US crew flight and one American on each Soyuz flight.  NASA wouldn't have to pay for extra Soyuz seats (which would be incredibly stupid if they were leaving one of their own seats empty.)  As a bonus for Russia, if they want to keep their crew at two for a while then they'd have a lot of flexibility to fly tourists/allied astronauts on short term missions using the otherwise empty Soyuz seat during the crew changeovers.

[QuantumG]

NASA wouldn't have to pay for extra Soyuz seats (which would be incredibly stupid if they were leaving one of their own seats empty.)

I hope that once NASA has bought all the Soyuz seats from Boeing (last I heard, they've bought two, are negotiating for two more, which leaves one unaccounted for) then no more funds will be changing hands - that said, NASA astronauts will still be flying on Soyuz, with Russian cosmonauts flying on commercial vehicles (although they apparently don't want to fly on Dragon). It's all politics.

[Paul Howard]

SWGlassPit and everyone else are completely correct and it doesn't need to take 10 "but I'm QG!" posts and subsequent replies to have to say it. It was said in public by Gerst. That's the end of it.