Commercial Crew - Discussion Thread 1

[Hog]

Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.

$85 million a seat sound fair?

Wait until Soyuz capability is has to be stood down, then double the cost.  I remember there was a price increase for Soyuz seats on July 21, 2011.  I'm not sure why that day was chosen for a doubling of Soyuz seats?(sarc)

Did NASA actually send payments to Roskosmos for Western Astronaut Soyuz training/transportation to ISS?
I know that us Canadians have "bartered" hardware/services for Canadian ISS Commanders/Crewmembers and as part of our 2..  David St Jacques is due for launch on Expedition 58.  The last Canuck to ISS was Chris Hadfield in the position of Commander for Expedition 35, but that was almost 6 years ago now. Expedition 35 ended May 2013. The next Canadian to possibly be lofted to ISS in a new Commercial Crew Vehicle may be Jeremy Hansen.

[guckyfan]

Let me guess. Seats will be provided free because Russians are needed to run the russian segment and services from there are still deemed required.

[jbenton]

Let me guess. Seats will be provided free because Russians are needed to run the russian segment and services from there are still deemed required.

Wouldn't be surprised. I'm not saying that NASA doesn't need the money but America does not, whereas Roscosmos - and Russia generally - was kind of desperate. Mission designers would probably justify it by saying that they're going the high road.

On the other hand, there could be some Congressmembers who would fume at "wasted taxpayer dollars" and insist that NASA charge the Russians

[erioladastra]

Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any information on a deal for commercial to carry Russians and friends if there's a Soyuz standown for any reason?

Last I heard, the Russians are entitled to seats on Commercial Crew regardless of Soyuz future activity, same as the other partners.

You heard incorrectly.  The official plan was always just US (and non Russian IPs) astronauts but we always wanted a mix so that if any crew has to go home we have a mix of crew still on the ISS.  There have been complex negotiations ongoing for years over it - it was not a given or entitlement.

[docmordrid]

"Balloon drop test?" 

"Landing legs"??

Michael Baylor@nextspaceflight
 The Crew Dragon capsule for the SpaceX DM-1 mission will be launch ready by the end of September.
5:38 PM - Aug 27, 2018

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1034193553491222528?s=19

[gongora]

[woods170]

"Balloon drop test?" 

Was mentioned before in public statements by NASA. The high-altitude balloon drop test is part of the on-going parachute qualification.

[cscott]

As a Model X owner, I'm absurdly thrilled that the SpaceX astronauts are going to be driven to the pad in a Model X.  The falcon wing doors should be quite practical for astros in stiff suits.

[kevinof]

I'll offer to drive them in mine at no charge!  Great PR for Tesla but yes, the doors will make it really easy to get out.

As a Model X owner, I'm absurdly thrilled that the SpaceX astronauts are going to be driven to the pad in a Model X.  The falcon wing doors should be quite practical for astros in stiff suits.

[gongora]

The different types of doors on automobiles is seriously off-topic for this thread.

[yg1968]

Some news from the NAC meeting:

https://spacenews.com/nasa-keeps-open-option-of-extended-commercial-crew-demo-flights/

[envy887]

The different types of doors on automobiles is seriously off-topic for this thread.

Is astronaut transport to the pad covered under a different contract than CCtCAP?

[cscott]

The different types of doors on automobiles is seriously off-topic for this thread.

Is astronaut transport to the pad covered under a different contract than CCtCAP?

I'm curious to know Boeing's plans for pad transport as well.  Shuttle used a "modified 1983 Airstream Excella motorhome" and presumably it's still around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut_transfer_van

I can guess that if a company asked nicely the Astrovan might be available as "NASA-supplied equipment".  What does the commerical crew contract say, if anything?

Another option would be to tow a trailer with the astronauts.  Model X is unique among EVs as having (manufacturer warranted) towing capacity, so that might even be the direction SpaceX is going.  That way you could build a legacy with the towed trailer without being stuck maintaining a 1983 engine indefinitely.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ohmmans-airstream-adventures.83350/#post-1893314

[woods170]

The different types of doors on automobiles is seriously off-topic for this thread.

Is astronaut transport to the pad covered under a different contract than CCtCAP?

No. All part of the service NASA is paying for. So yes, that is IMO on-topic. But I’m not a mod.

[gongora]

The post that prompted my warning went into a bit more detail on the history of car doors than was really necessary for this discussion.

[yg1968]

I may be missing something, so sorry in advance!; but why should NASA pay extra to fly the Boeing test astronaut? [As much as I am thrilled CF is on the flight!- I called for the 2 providers to add their own crew-mwmbers from the start]. Or are they going to say the second NASA astro is the "Extra"?

I believe he was referring to the proposal that turns CFT into a crew rotation flight, 6 months stay at ISS. In which case I assume the Boeing test astronaut will be replaced by a NASA astronaut.

I think that you are right, Chris Ferguson is no longer a NASA astronaut. If he stayed 6 months on the ISS, he would have to pay for his stay. Plus, if there is already 4 astronauts on the CST-100, there would be no need for a fifth one. But right now the plan is for a short stay at the ISS and only 2 NASA astronauts (plus Chris Ferguson).

Incidentally, SpaceX also had the option of having test pilots on its demo flight but declined to do so. Under the CCtCap request for proposals, the demo flight wasn't required to go to the ISS or even have NASA astronauts. But a number of people in Congress felt that if the demo flight was going to go the ISS, it had to have some NASA astronauts on board.

Not correct.  In fact, since a Boeing astronaut is part of the package it is more like Boeing selling his time.  It is NASA saying they want a longer flight so they have to provide the supplies etc.

Not that a confirmation was actually needed but it is interesting to note that they had that the exact same discussion at the last NAC HEO meeting and they confirmed that Ferguson would then stay for an extended mission (if that option is exercised). They would not add any other astronauts to this mission even if it becomes an operational mission. Lueders mentionned that Fergusion had started ISS training in case this option is exercised. 

For more on this, see NSF's article on this:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46261.0

[abaddon]

Would that make Ferguson the first commercial NASA astronaut?  He would still be paid by Boeing and a commercially employed astronaut but trained by NASA?

I know there have been other "citizens in space" but AFAIR those were all short-stay Shuttle trips or seats sold by the Russians to civilians.

The whole thing seems a little odd, although he is of course a former NASA astronaut.

[billh]

Would that make Ferguson the first commercial NASA astronaut?  He would still be paid by Boeing and a commercially employed astronaut but trained by NASA?

I know there have been other "citizens in space" but AFAIR those were all short-stay Shuttle trips or seats sold by the Russians to civilians.

The whole thing seems a little odd, although he is of course a former NASA astronaut.

In the Shuttle era there were a number of payload specialists who were not NASA astronauts.

[abaddon]

Would that make Ferguson the first commercial NASA astronaut?  He would still be paid by Boeing and a commercially employed astronaut but trained by NASA?

I know there have been other "citizens in space" but AFAIR those were all short-stay Shuttle trips or seats sold by the Russians to civilians.

The whole thing seems a little odd, although he is of course a former NASA astronaut.

In the Shuttle era there were a number of payload specialists who were not NASA astronauts.

Right, those would have stayed only for the duration of the Shuttle mission, i.e. < two weeks.  Did any of them do a full six month tour?

[jbenton]

Would that make Ferguson the first commercial NASA astronaut?  He would still be paid by Boeing and a commercially employed astronaut but trained by NASA?

I know there have been other "citizens in space" but AFAIR those were all short-stay Shuttle trips or seats sold by the Russians to civilians.

The whole thing seems a little odd, although he is of course a former NASA astronaut.

In the Shuttle era there were a number of payload specialists who were not NASA astronauts.

Right, those would have stayed only for the duration of the Shuttle mission, i.e. < two weeks.  Did any of them do a full six month tour?

Just checked Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payload_specialist#List_of_all_payload_specialists

Looks like none of them visited Mir, and only one flew during the ISS-era, STS-107 - which did not go to the ISS. The longest these sort of missions would last was 26 days, none of them did anything close to a six month tour. (At least, not according to Wikipedia)