Author Topic: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA  (Read 204257 times)

Offline Jim

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Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #1 on: 09/16/2014 03:49 PM »
This has already been discussed at the Blue Origins update thread....but I think it needs some dedicated thread too.

I thought they were thinking of using the BE-3 as a RL-10 replacement?
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Online Lars-J

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #2 on: 09/16/2014 04:05 PM »
This has already been discussed at the Blue Origins update thread....but I think it needs some dedicated thread too.

I thought they were thinking of using the BE-3 as a RL-10 replacement?

Yes, could this be a first stage or upper stage engine replacement? Or both? Would a BE-3 powered Centaur still be a Centaur? :)

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #4 on: 09/16/2014 04:46 PM »
Spacenews saying it's RD-180 replacement

http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41884ula-and-blue-origin-to-team-up-for-rd-180-replacement

But... The only big-scale engine program at BO (that we are aware of) is a HydroLox based. How would this fit the Atlas V?

Offline .gif

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #5 on: 09/16/2014 04:51 PM »
ULA has been doing some initial feasability studies regarding a methane-based booster engine replacement which would be developed by Blue Origin.  This would involve using an entirely different booster core.  They are looking at putting the engine on a Delta IV booster core.

Offline FuseUpHereAlone

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #6 on: 09/16/2014 04:55 PM »
Spacenews saying it's RD-180 replacement

http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41884ula-and-blue-origin-to-team-up-for-rd-180-replacement

But... The only big-scale engine program at BO (that we are aware of) is a HydroLox based. How would this fit the Atlas V?

Rumor says it'll be Lox/Methane...I'm sure if BO (hehe) is capable of building a HydroLox Tap-off cycle engine, they'll be more than capable of doing Lox/Methane.  Actually now that I think of it, they maybe be better positioned than SpaceX to produce a Lox/Methane engine given their HydroLox experience.  Anyway, I know a ton of really good engineers who've gone over to BO (lol...the acronym gets me everytime  ;D)

Offline butters

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #7 on: 09/16/2014 05:01 PM »
Big blow for AJR?

Offline FuseUpHereAlone

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #8 on: 09/16/2014 05:04 PM »
Big blow for AJR?

I believe is "AR" not "AJR" (hence AR-1)...but yeah looks like they'll actually have to compete.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #9 on: 09/16/2014 05:06 PM »
Big blow for AJR?

An enormous one but I can't see how ULA are doing this seriously. I'm assuming that this is something intended for the 5-10 years' time time-frame - In other words, far enough into future to assure Congress that they're doing something about the foreign-sourced core engine issue but not so near-term as to be required to produce working hardware any time soon (in the hope that the whole thing goes away before the costs of the program mount up).

My gut feeling is that the "BE-X" engine is primarily a response to Raptor and won't go into a higher gear unless SpaceX reach the full-scale ground test program but we'll see.
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Offline kerlc

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #10 on: 09/16/2014 05:09 PM »
The inception of Atlas VI, perhaps?
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Offline MP99

Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #11 on: 09/16/2014 05:13 PM »
Spacenews saying it's RD-180 replacement

http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41884ula-and-blue-origin-to-team-up-for-rd-180-replacement

But... The only big-scale engine program at BO (that we are aware of) is a HydroLox based. How would this fit the Atlas V?

Rumor says it'll be Lox/Methane...I'm sure if BO (hehe) is capable of building a HydroLox Tap-off cycle engine, they'll be more than capable of doing Lox/Methane.

Are you saying that tapoff will scale to booster engine size, IE avoid Staged Combustion completely?

How would the Isp compare with SC?

cheers, Martin

Offline .gif

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #12 on: 09/16/2014 05:51 PM »
ULA has been doing some initial feasability studies regarding a methane-based booster engine replacement which would be developed by Blue Origin.  This would involve using an entirely different booster core.  They are looking at putting the engine on a Delta IV booster core.
Also, they are referring to it as "Blue Atlas."  Though if it uses a DIV booster, is it really an Atlas anymore?

Online Kryten

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #13 on: 09/16/2014 06:04 PM »
 It is if 'Atlas' works better with focus groups, as it likely will; same as the current Titan-derived 'Atlas V'.

Offline butters

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #14 on: 09/16/2014 06:12 PM »
They should call it Atlas V v1.1

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #15 on: 09/16/2014 07:02 PM »
Would a Delta 4 CBC sized methalox stage provide Heavy class capability with a single core, I wonder without doing any calculations...  :)

 - Ed Kyle

Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #16 on: 09/16/2014 07:14 PM »
They should call it Atlas V v1.1

It is very unlikely they would call any new or modified rocket anything but Atlas(x). They have a prestigious history and excellent flight record. They could not claim X-number successful flights, with something new.

Otherwise I don't see a way ULA could claim they have superior and proven mission assurance relative to Falcon.

It is a huge win for BO, and smart move for Boeing/ULA, at least in theory. Practice is another matter. Culture clashes and ULA manufacturing footprint/efficiency is not known.

However, one could see this as an admission that neither company alone could compete with you know who.
« Last Edit: 09/16/2014 07:16 PM by GalacticIntruder »
Moon landings were fake and the SLS/Orion debacle is the proof.

Online notsorandom

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #17 on: 09/16/2014 07:31 PM »
Would a Delta 4 CBC sized methalox stage provide Heavy class capability with a single core, I wonder without doing any calculations...  :)

 - Ed Kyle
Bet it would be a beast. Looking forward to the to someone doing and writing up the calculations hint hint...

Offline FuseUpHereAlone

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #18 on: 09/16/2014 07:32 PM »
Spacenews saying it's RD-180 replacement

http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41884ula-and-blue-origin-to-team-up-for-rd-180-replacement

But... The only big-scale engine program at BO (that we are aware of) is a HydroLox based. How would this fit the Atlas V?

Rumor says it'll be Lox/Methane...I'm sure if BO (hehe) is capable of building a HydroLox Tap-off cycle engine, they'll be more than capable of doing Lox/Methane.

Are you saying that tapoff will scale to booster engine size, IE avoid Staged Combustion completely?

How would the Isp compare with SC?

cheers, Martin

No, what I meant is that BO has experience with gas-liquid (fuel-oxid) injectors.  Whatever cycle they use (which will probably be SC) will vaporize the methane.  So far from I can tell SpaceX experience is with liquid-liquid injectors.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Blue Origin to supply engine for ULA
« Reply #19 on: 09/16/2014 07:46 PM »
Would a Delta 4 CBC sized methalox stage provide Heavy class capability with a single core, I wonder without doing any calculations...  :)

 - Ed Kyle
Bet it would be a beast. Looking forward to the to someone doing and writing up the calculations hint hint...
With what data from what test stand, against what stage dry mass, and with which necessary replacements to non optimal stage flight systems that won't work for methalox props?

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