Current businesses that I know of (ie that they have been paid for):1. Space launch services (including payload integration)2. Spacecraft design3. Ocean recovery of re-entry vehicles
Current businesses that they have demonstrated (as their own client):1. Rocket engine design, manufacture, testing2. Rocket tank/fuselage design, manufacture, testing3. Aerodynamic control surface design, manufacture, testing4. Avionics instrumentation and control design, manufacture, testing5. Managing static engine test facilities, managing test range (Richardson)6. Tracking and communications with space craft7. Composite aerodynamic shells/fairing design, manufacturing, testing
1. Launch Facility development/management (Texas so far)2. Launch range management (not sure whether there needs to be any Air Force involvement for their space port, eventually this will be like airport management)3. Ocean, and eventually land based, propulsive landing recovery operations.4. Design of deep space craft (Mars probe)5. Space passenger services (LEO + further eventually)
It is not a far stretch to presume that at some point they will have global tracking, possibly space based tracking and communications, will they ever design/manufacture/operate their own space station/depot or just contract to launch those for others? It is certainly possible that they get into that business at some point.
Jim, all aerospace companies design and build rocket engines?
#3 belongs in the second group, and they also contracted for the boat
The second group is what all aerospace companies do.
They contract for #6
They did #1 at the Cape and VAFB. #3 doesn't involve much management. #4 is TBD
Yes, it is at this time. Not until they really start going to Mars As for space station or depot, only if it helps them get to Mars
Quote from: Jim on 09/03/2014 07:14 pm #3 belongs in the second group, and they also contracted for the boatI considered NASA the client there, particularly the part about the different retrieval urgencies
You can't say they exist for the purpose of going to Mars and then say that designing a Mars probe is TBD - in fact they have probably designed (at a high level anyway) several different probes and some in-situ resource stuff.
Lars my purpose for this thread is to find out what other businesses SpaceX is in, is planning on being in, and those businesses that people 'reasonably' expect them to go into. Why I want to learn more about that, and about how other people see it, is because I can't help but want to understand what space related businesses (and some not so obviously related) will change.Just like Tesla's battery factory has implications that may change other types of businesses, so may SpaceX. This isn't about mindless SpaceX cheerleading, it is about learning more about their impact. I feel Google's contributions to robotics is critically important to understand where robotics will be applied that changes life and business. I feel the same way about SpaceX. We can argue all we want about how far off 2nd stage recovery and rapid reuse is (or if it will ever happen at all) but I am also interested in the implications of what that cost reduction would do independent of that discussion.
Jim, all aerospace companies design and build rocket engines?Can we add new technologies, now that they are starting engines in a hypersonic air flow?
The problem with diversification is that it distracts management attention from the core objectives of the company. SpaceX isn't purely motivated by the aim of making money, but by its primary objective of creating the transportation infrastructure to enable the colonisation of Mars. Anything that distracts from that they won't pursue - unless a shortage of cash is even more distracting! - but it's possible that there could be businesses they could pursue that won't be distracting, or which bring in additional management resource to compensate.The obvious one is to sell any of their products - Merlin engines, Draco thrusters, avionic systems etc - to third parties. Or if they have under-utilised resource; perhaps in design or manufacture, or launch services from any of the pads they operate.
Ok, first of all to stimulate discussion, my major learning technique, and second because the comments about SpaceX being a vertically integrated business on another thread, I thought I would explore with those of you here the different businesses that SpaceX is currently involved in and those that reasonable speculation would put them in in the future...I don't know that SpaceX has made any efforts to resell their manufacturing services, but given that Tesla made drive trains for other company's cars, I don't think Elon and the rest of SpaceX would have any objections to making rocket parts for other companies, nor designing them...
There's a YouTube video of Elon speaking somewhere in 2003 saying ... "we're really just a systems integrator, we're buying things from other people", but by the time I showed up in 2005 that had completely turned around and pretty much everything was getting done in-house. And you can see why when you see the interactions with these suppliers, particularly the ones in the space industry. They think they're the only ones who can make this widget or who have the secret sauce, and when you say "no, you're too expensive", they say "well, that's what it is". And they're used to customers who, if they slip the schedule and double the price, the customer shrugs and goes back to headquarters and says, "well, it's gonna take twice as long and it's gonna cost twice as much", and that's how things go in a traditional government run program.But SpaceX would say "no, that's not acceptable", and they'd cancel the contract. And sometimes these suppliers were literally scoffing on the phone as you hung up, and call you back a couple of months later saying "so, have you changed your mind yet?" And being able to say to them that "no, if you can do it, then maybe somebody else can do it too", like either SpaceX figured out how to do it themselves, because they hired some smart people and gave them the resources and tools, or you find another supplier with maybe a non-space version and you upgrade and qualify it for space.And now what you've done, this backward supplier has bred a competitor for themselves, where they're not used to competition. I mean, many of the suppliers in this industry would just go out of business in a heartbeat if competition were actually introduced.So really that's the game changing stuff that SpaceX has been doing: bringing stuff in-house, not just because it gives them control of cost and schedule, but because the space suppliers, traditional suppliers just don't get it. They're not used to being held to schedules and budgets.And that's not true of everybody, but there is list of anecdotes I could tell you about suppliers with this attitude. And in each case either SpaceX brings in in-house and makes it successfully, or they find another supplier and upgrade it, and that supplier is usually thrilled to have a whole new market opened up for them.
So Elon formed SpaceX specifically to lower launch vehicle costs. To be clear, SpaceX was not formed to maximize profits, as this would hinder space exploration. This is why they've pushed out their IPO indefinitely. SpaceX needs revenue to expand toward their goal, but its pretty clear that all revenue will be reinvested in the company, leaving no profits for the next decade, probably longer.So then: Why would SpaceX want to use their vertical integration capabilities to sell parts that would enable their competitors?To me, the answer seems simple. They would do it if they thought it would advance their goals, which is to accelerate space exploration. In other words, if they believed that the project that would use their vertically produced part or sub-assembly has a good chance of success, and it would help to lower launch costs within the industry, they would probably sell it.
Launch is a low-margin industry. Spacecraft building I believe has higher margins. If SpaceX does succeed in lowering launch costs, their revenue may drop unless they add some higher margin business. Dragon is responsible for probably about half their revenue though I'd bet they spend more resources on F9, FH, Merlin, and their launch sites. So unless the launch industry increases dramatically, SpaceX may very well be incentivized to keep their prices high.
SpaceX wasn't formed to maximize profits, however you maximize profits by finding the way to have lower costs than your competitors and price at a point where the amount of business you stimulate into existence with lower pricing multiplied by your margin hits a peak
