Author Topic: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 243136 times)

Offline fast

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #60 on: 12/14/2014 11:52 AM »


It would make sense. It looks like they'll just be able to use a simplified strong-back to drive a F9/FH up to the new stand, erect it, tank it up and start the test. (no crane needed to life a stage high)

I have thought of a kind of strong-back or TE too. But I am not sure that a crane will not be cheaper to operate. Maybe a Heavy will need one though. That would make the operation even more launch pad like. They would need the full hydraulics to erect it.





Is that necessarily true re the hydraulics?

It would seem to be simpler to have a winch from somewhere up on the test stand to pull the TE vertical. ISTM they avoid this on the launch pad because they don't have a fixed structure which could house the winch. (Or the winch could be in a protected place on the ground, with the cable trained through a pulley up on the stand.)

It's not like the launch pad, where the hydraulics are required to retract the TEL shortly before launch.

Think of it as a crane integrated into the stand.

Cheers, Martin

The problem with that is if the cable should fail, as it would be in tension. For hydraulics, the cylincers are in compression, and there are lond control valves to lock the cylindrs if a hose should fail. And if the worst should happen, they would still provide some amount of slowing of the load.

Very simple ratchet device at the base of strong-back structure will eliminate this threat

Offline MP99

Looks like SpaceX is planning to massively expand their McGregor operation.  They plan to add 300 new full time jobs (pending an almost-certain approval of incentives from local government), more than doubling the size of their Texas workforce.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/business/spacex-expansion-could-add-jobs-locally/article_a805e495-09ed-5fb0-9b9d-95b038d4cbfc.html

Maybe this means an expansion in the rate of testing due to more heavies in the pipeline?  Or maybe anticipating rehab and checkout for used stages?
There was some Twitter chat (Tom someone, but not Mueller) suggesting an announcement. This is probably it.

Cheers, Martin

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #62 on: 12/14/2014 02:20 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
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Offline DJPledger

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #63 on: 12/14/2014 02:56 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
I don't think they will be testing Raptor at McGregor and will likely test complete Raptors on the B-1 stand at Stennis. The McGregor expansion plans are most likely for building more test stands for F9 cores and more single Merlin stands to increase the amount of parallel testing to meet demand.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2014 08:00 PM by DJPledger »

Online docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #64 on: 12/14/2014 03:22 PM »
Methinks you could do that in a lot less than 3,000+ additional acres.
DM

Offline Razvan

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #65 on: 12/14/2014 03:27 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
I don't think they will be testing Raptor at McGregor and will likely test complete Raptors on one of the B stands at Stennis. The McGregor expansion plans are most likely for building more test stands for F9 cores and more single Merlin stands to increase the amount of parallel testing to meet demand.
That much money just for test stands? I was thinking about, say, a new assembly line for rocket engines. Why not even for rockets?! They test the engines and rockets at McGregor, don't they? Then it looks pretty logic for saving money and a lot of time with the transportation/handling - which operation always pose a certain risk - why not do all these activities right here at Mc Gregor...
« Last Edit: 12/14/2014 03:29 PM by Razvan »

Offline Avron

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #66 on: 12/14/2014 03:33 PM »
Increase to allow for Dragon Crew training

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #67 on: 12/14/2014 03:39 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
I don't think they will be testing Raptor at McGregor and will likely test complete Raptors on one of the B stands at Stennis. The McGregor expansion plans are most likely for building more test stands for F9 cores and more single Merlin stands to increase the amount of parallel testing to meet demand.
That much money just for test stands? I was thinking about, say, a new assembly line for rocket engines. Why not even for rockets?! They test the engines and rockets at McGregor, don't they? Then it looks pretty logic for saving money and a lot of time with the transportation/handling - which operation always pose a certain risk - why not do all these activities right here at Mc Gregor...
The new Raptor turbo-pump build engineer position is at Hawthorne... BFR cores are too large to transport from McGregor.  McGregor is their test facility, so far, and they have enough in the pipeline to double(?) the workforce there.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
« Last Edit: 12/14/2014 03:42 PM by AncientU »
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Offline Avron

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #68 on: 12/14/2014 03:48 PM »

The new Raptor turbo-pump build engineer position is at Hawthorne... BFR cores are too large to transport from McGregor.  McGregor is their test facility, so far, and they have enough in the pipeline to double(?) the workforce there.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985

Testing turbo pumps at McGregor, the rest of Raptor testing  will need Stennis. We still have not seen FH on test yet.. But the most important will be Crew Training.. My money is on Crew training and associated HSF facilities in terms of increase in size and workforce at McGregor

Offline Razvan

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #69 on: 12/14/2014 04:06 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
I don't think they will be testing Raptor at McGregor and will likely test complete Raptors on one of the B stands at Stennis. The McGregor expansion plans are most likely for building more test stands for F9 cores and more single Merlin stands to increase the amount of parallel testing to meet demand.
That much money just for test stands? I was thinking about, say, a new assembly line for rocket engines. Why not even for rockets?! They test the engines and rockets at McGregor, don't they? Then it looks pretty logic for saving money and a lot of time with the transportation/handling - which operation always pose a certain risk - why not do all these activities right here at Mc Gregor...
The new Raptor turbo-pump build engineer position is at Hawthorne... BFR cores are too large to transport from McGregor.  McGregor is their test facility, so far, and they have enough in the pipeline to double(?) the workforce there.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
Where did you read that position is going to be located at Hawthorne?
At McGregor you can have the manufacturing line for Raptors and Merlins as well. They need a lot of engines with all these launching pads, think of, say, 300 Merlins for Falcon 9, and now they are geting  216  far under their needs; in addition to those they'd need more Merlins for FH, say another 100 maybe 180.
They can start small at McGregor and eventually transfer the whole production from Hawthorne and use Hawthorne for Tesla in 5 years or so.
BFR might be assembled at Boca Chica site with all the required gear, test stand and all.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #70 on: 12/14/2014 04:32 PM »
Maybe SpaceX is thinking they might need an auxiliary landing field for the Dragon and whatever else in the future. They acquire the land now to prevent development.

Offline Owlon

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #71 on: 12/14/2014 05:13 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
I don't think they will be testing Raptor at McGregor and will likely test complete Raptors on one of the B stands at Stennis. The McGregor expansion plans are most likely for building more test stands for F9 cores and more single Merlin stands to increase the amount of parallel testing to meet demand.
That much money just for test stands? I was thinking about, say, a new assembly line for rocket engines. Why not even for rockets?! They test the engines and rockets at McGregor, don't they? Then it looks pretty logic for saving money and a lot of time with the transportation/handling - which operation always pose a certain risk - why not do all these activities right here at Mc Gregor...
The new Raptor turbo-pump build engineer position is at Hawthorne... BFR cores are too large to transport from McGregor.  McGregor is their test facility, so far, and they have enough in the pipeline to double(?) the workforce there.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
Where did you read that position is going to be located at Hawthorne?
At McGregor you can have the manufacturing line for Raptors and Merlins as well. They need a lot of engines with all these launching pads, think of, say, 300 Merlins for Falcon 9, and now they are geting  216  far under their needs; in addition to those they'd need more Merlins for FH, say another 100 maybe 180.
They can start small at McGregor and eventually transfer the whole production from Hawthorne and use Hawthorne for Tesla in 5 years or so.
BFR might be assembled at Boca Chica site with all the required gear, test stand and all.

The Hawthorne factory is supposed to be sized for 400 Merlins and 40 cores a year. 300 more positions at McGregor aren't nearly enough to support that kind of manufacturing. Their lease in Hawthorne also runs through 2023, and they seem pretty committed to staying there in the mid- to long-term.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
At the bottom, right above the blue "Apply Now" button it says the job is in Hawthorne.

Offline savuporo

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #72 on: 12/14/2014 05:22 PM »
http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
At the bottom, right above the blue "Apply Now" button it says the job is in Hawthorne.

Actually their McGregor hiring page gives a pretty good idea what they are scaling up there
http://www.spacex.com/careers/list?location[]=57

I like the "Non-Destructive Test Technician" :)
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Offline Avron

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #73 on: 12/14/2014 05:36 PM »
Next year we can expect Dragon to be hopping all over the place..  may need some room at McGregor..

I can't find the FAA licences .. :(

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #74 on: 12/14/2014 05:45 PM »
http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
At the bottom, right above the blue "Apply Now" button it says the job is in Hawthorne.

Actually their McGregor hiring page gives a pretty good idea what they are scaling up there
http://www.spacex.com/careers/list?location[]=57

I like the "Non-Destructive Test Technician" :)

The list of positions looks more like minor manufacturing and operations needed to operate the FH test stand. The additional acreage may be a insurance that sound levels restrictions would not be encroached by development of the land close to the FH test stand.

Offline Razvan

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #75 on: 12/14/2014 05:58 PM »
Hopefully they are building a Methlox test stand... they will need an entire parallel test campaignstaff to avoid disrupting the Kerlox test flow that includes multiple firings daily.  Their Stennis campaign was only at the component level, I think.
I don't think they will be testing Raptor at McGregor and will likely test complete Raptors on one of the B stands at Stennis. The McGregor expansion plans are most likely for building more test stands for F9 cores and more single Merlin stands to increase the amount of parallel testing to meet demand.
That much money just for test stands? I was thinking about, say, a new assembly line for rocket engines. Why not even for rockets?! They test the engines and rockets at McGregor, don't they? Then it looks pretty logic for saving money and a lot of time with the transportation/handling - which operation always pose a certain risk - why not do all these activities right here at Mc Gregor...
The new Raptor turbo-pump build engineer position is at Hawthorne... BFR cores are too large to transport from McGregor.  McGregor is their test facility, so far, and they have enough in the pipeline to double(?) the workforce there.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
Where did you read that position is going to be located at Hawthorne?
At McGregor you can have the manufacturing line for Raptors and Merlins as well. They need a lot of engines with all these launching pads, think of, say, 300 Merlins for Falcon 9, and now they are geting  216  far under their needs; in addition to those they'd need more Merlins for FH, say another 100 maybe 180.
They can start small at McGregor and eventually transfer the whole production from Hawthorne and use Hawthorne for Tesla in 5 years or so.
BFR might be assembled at Boca Chica site with all the required gear, test stand and all.

The Hawthorne factory is supposed to be sized for 400 Merlins and 40 cores a year. 300 more positions at McGregor aren't nearly enough to support that kind of manufacturing. Their lease in Hawthorne also runs through 2023, and they seem pretty committed to staying there in the mid- to long-term.

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
At the bottom, right above the blue "Apply Now" button it says the job is in Hawthorne.
I looked at the list of Hawthorne's and McGregor's positions and I can see it supports your comments.
Thanks

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #76 on: 12/14/2014 06:35 PM »
http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5985
At the bottom, right above the blue "Apply Now" button it says the job is in Hawthorne.

Actually their McGregor hiring page gives a pretty good idea what they are scaling up there
http://www.spacex.com/careers/list?location[]=57

I like the "Non-Destructive Test Technician" :)

The list of positions looks more like minor manufacturing and operations needed to operate the FH test stand. The additional acreage may be a insurance that sound levels restrictions would not be encroached by development of the land close to the FH test stand.

maybe its more like they can get the land because its available.
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Offline Zardar

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #77 on: 12/14/2014 07:41 PM »
maybe its more like they can get the land because its available.

"McGregor Mayor Jim Hering said SpaceX leased the additional property because of the difficulties alerting and clearing out local farmers and others in a 1-mile radius each time a rocket engine is tested."


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article4312711.html#storylink=cpy

Offline Avron

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #78 on: 12/14/2014 08:07 PM »
maybe its more like they can get the land because its available.

"McGregor Mayor Jim Hering said SpaceX leased the additional property because of the difficulties alerting and clearing out local farmers and others in a 1-mile radius each time a rocket engine is tested."


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article4312711.html#storylink=cpy

and now we know why the need for a farmer.. its required by the lease

Online deruch

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Re: SpaceX McGregor Testing Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #79 on: 12/14/2014 09:24 PM »
maybe its more like they can get the land because its available.

"McGregor Mayor Jim Hering said SpaceX leased the additional property because of the difficulties alerting and clearing out local farmers and others in a 1-mile radius each time a rocket engine is tested."


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article4312711.html#storylink=cpy

After reading that article, I'm impressed with the McGreggor mayor.  It's hard to balance competing interests in a small town but it sounds like he found a decent line.
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