Former SpaceX Employees Sue

[Redcoat22]

This entire thread is so much to do about nothing.  Wage and hour lawsuits are quite common with disgruntled employees and trying to use it as a sounding board for impending corporate doom at SpaceX is laughable.  People fall over themselves trying to work at SpaceX because its the kind of demanding place that make people feel like they have a high purpose.  Believe it or not, money isn't the biggest motivator in life. 

Even if this suit prevails (which would be surprising given that there is an HR department) the penalty would hardly disrupt the grand picture here.  Move along.


The surprising truth about what motivates us

[Coastal Ron]

Every place has grumblings and people quitting/resigning over work hours, few have suits on it.

I don't think you have visibility into the number of suits there really are since that implies that SpaceX represents the "norm" with regards to visibility, and we know that SpaceX is far more visible than the norm (for good and bad).

In my career the suits that I've been aware of from a management standpoint never made the national news, and only some made the local news.  I do agree though that every place has grumblings and people quitting/resigning over work hours, and this suit will turn on whether the person was hourly or salary - if hourly then they deserve to be paid, and if salary then it's less clear (and likely not).

[edkyle99]

One reason these suits against SpaceX are creating headlines is likely the fact that SpaceX itself filed a big newsy lawsuit against the U.S. government a few months back. 

 - Ed Kyle

[Coastal Ron]

One reason these suits against SpaceX are creating headlines is likely the fact that SpaceX itself filed a big newsy lawsuit against the U.S. government a few months back. 

No doubt.  And just the fact that SpaceX is publicity savvy for the positive stuff also means that they are newsworthy for everything else too.  It's just the nature of how the news works, especially in our hyper-connected way these days.  Kind of like the old saying, "live by the sword, die by the sword".

[Robotbeat]

It's part of life at SpaceX. It sucks, but they have made far more progress in about the same time as Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic, two companies (esp. VG) with a better work/life balance. For most of the workers at SpaceX, they no doubt think it's worth it.

[wolfpack]

The honeymoon is over

Between whom?

[wolfpack]

One reason these suits against SpaceX are creating headlines is likely the fact that SpaceX itself filed a big newsy lawsuit against the U.S. government a few months back. 

 - Ed Kyle

Big newsy to us. Wouldn't move the needle for most folks.

[mlindner]

Exactly - which is my point, that the honeymoon was over long ago. Grumblings from some SpaceX employees have percolated social media for a long time. A round of layoffs was inevitable at some point, they do occur in cycles in most corporations when the initial growth period comes to an end. So some sort of suit by some individuals was inevitable. It is no indication that the honeymoon is over *just now*.

My post was about the work hours suit and not the layoff.  Every place has grumblings and people quitting/resigning over work hours, few have suits on it.

Welcome to agile work environments? This is really common at software companies. People dissing their employers and quitting and being pressed too hard. Maybe some folk from slow paced work environments find offense?

[llanitedave]

The honeymoon is over

Between whom?

Between Jim and SpaceX, of course.  We know how infatuated he's been with them up until now...

[meekGee]

A second suit has been filed.

'a former employee alleges that the rocket maker violated state labor laws by denying workers breaks and requiring them to work "off the clock."'

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tn-spacex-employee-lawsuit-20140812-story.html?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fbusiness+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)

The honeymoon is over

It was over long ago. Now you are sounding just as reactionary as the "Gass was fired from ULA" folks.

No, this have been brewing for a long time.

Hiring is a really difficult task, and you're bound to pick up some of the wrong people.  I'm surprised this hasn't happened before.

But "honeymoon is over" implies there's some fall out between SpaceX management and the workforce in general.  Instead, we have some people moaning they didn't get enough breaks.  What exactly does it mean?  Exactly nothing.

"This has been brewing for some time now" implies knowledge of the state of mind of the disgruntled employees.  About that, I am not surprised.

[cleonard]

In California you have to pay overtime to the hourly people.  Same for the break rules.  Salaried engineers are a different story.  I'm one of those California engineers and I've put in a lot of time.  I don't average some of the crazy numbers that have been thrown around for SpaceX.

There are some special rules here for some IT/engineering job titles where you have to pay overtime below a compensation threshold.

I wonder how many of the terminated salaried employees were canned due to not putting in enough hours.

[A_M_Swallow]

Has SpaceX done previous firings following performance reviews?
If not this implies a change in management style.

[Jim]

But "honeymoon is over" implies there's some fall out between SpaceX management and the workforce in general.  Instead, we have some people moaning they didn't get enough breaks.  What exactly does it mean?  Exactly nothing.

"This has been brewing for some time now" implies knowledge of the state of mind of the disgruntled employees.  About that, I am not surprised.

"honeymoon is over" is that it has gone to court

"This has been brewing for some time now" is that there have been other group resignations

[Jim]

Welcome to agile work environments? This is really common at software companies. People dissing their employers and quitting and being pressed too hard. Maybe some folk from slow paced work environments find offense?

Its nothing new for aerospace.  Did it 20 years ago at Spacehab, but I got compensated for my overtime.
SOP for military organizations.

[Elmar Moelzer]

Welcome to agile work environments? This is really common at software companies.

Its nothing compared to how badly many game developers treat their employees. People were asked to work 18 hour days without overtime and then were fired after completion so they would not be eligible for bonuses when the game shipped...

[notsorandom]

Its simple really, everyone has to follow the law. An employer no matter how cool or revolutionary cannot deny their workers breaks and make them work without pay. If the allegations of these lawsuits are true than SpaceX is going to learn an expensive lesson. However it may ultimately be for the better if it changes the work culture at SpaceX to something more sustainable. A good number of young professionals will eventually want to start families. If a company makes them choose between them or a family then they will loose a good number of talented people. Also a burned out employee is a less productive employee. SpaceX should not be in the position having their competitors snapping up their employees.

[meekGee]

But "honeymoon is over" implies there's some fall out between SpaceX management and the workforce in general.  Instead, we have some people moaning they didn't get enough breaks.  What exactly does it mean?  Exactly nothing.

"This has been brewing for some time now" implies knowledge of the state of mind of the disgruntled employees.  About that, I am not surprised.

"honeymoon is over" is that it has gone to court

"This has been brewing for some time now" is that there have been other group resignations

A bit over-dramatic no?   How many employees are suing?

"In one suit Joseph A. Smith, alleges that SpaceX broke California state wage and hour laws by failing to provide required meal and rest periods."

More accurately: the honeymoon between Joseph A. Smith (Is this even his real name?) and SpaceX is over.

--

I know about the other group resignation.  Have there been more?  Since if not, you're talking about "resignations" where there has only been a single other one. 

More accurately: Some guys resigned together a while back.  Then last week, some guys were terminated, and at least one guy is unhappy about the work hours, food, and not getting enough breaks.   What exactly is brewing?

--

Your summary lines read like headlines from "US Weekly".

[Coastal Ron]

Its simple really, everyone has to follow the law. An employer no matter how cool or revolutionary cannot deny their workers breaks and make them work without pay.

I agree that companies need to follow the law, but the issue with the second lawsuit may have more to do with a supervisor that is not good at management as opposed to the entire management of SpaceX.  That still doesn't make it right, but may be more an indication of growing pains more than anything else.

I worked for a technology company that grew rapidly - when hired I was in the low 3,000's for employee ID, and a year later we were up to over 5,000, adding 100 people a week.  You have to create your own management in that situation, and at our company we pushed as many people through management training classes as we could.  But not everyone is a born manager, so issues can come up.  That could be the situation with SpaceX.

However it may ultimately be for the better if it changes the work culture at SpaceX to something more sustainable. A good number of young professionals will eventually want to start families.

Well that is the natural progression, and certainly SpaceX is growing into a different company than they were 10 years ago, and even 4 years ago.  But that won't stop the constant pressure of innovation in them, because as Andy Grove is famous for saying, "only the paranoid survive", plus they have a CEO with a vision that is easy to understand (i.e. make humanity multi-planetary).  So from a growth perspective SpaceX is not unique, and the company I referenced earlier was still catering dinners for late working engineers 15 years after it started up, and I've heard the same from other companies too.

If you have a company that generates excitement for what they are doing then you'll be able to attract workers that enjoy challenges.  There is even an article about this in the Houston Press:

Space Flight: Increasingly, Gifted Individuals are Opting for the Private Sector Over NASA

SpaceX should not be in the position having their competitors snapping up their employees.

If you don't want to be challenged in a big way at work, then sure, you'll leave SpaceX to work on some normal project that will never make the news.  But if you want to be part of the disruption in space transportation, you'll gladly stay.

My $0.02

EDIT/MeekGee: Fixed URL

[Jim]

There have been other instances. 

The point is that it is become mainstream public. 

But continue to make excuses and ignore reality.

[veblen]

I'm kind of surprised that SpaceX can't or isn't interested in compliance with labour laws. Because that is a simple problem compared to some of the other constraints that they will be bumping up against.