Former SpaceX Employees Sue

[QuantumG]

So, what you're saying is that if 50 employees are fired, at the same time, for watching inappropriate content at work, that's a "layoff" in California? What is this, some sort of solidarity overrides employment handbook law?

If you're fired for cause, you weren't laid off. It's not a complex concept.

[abaddon]

So, what you're saying is that if 50 employees are fired, at the same time, for watching inappropriate content at work, that's a "layoff" in California? What is this, some sort of solidarity overrides employment handbook law?

If you're fired for cause, you weren't laid off. It's not a complex concept.

That would fall under "employee violated a workplace rule" and therefore "termination with cause", as explicitly noted in the post you are replying to...

[EDIT] Since you didn't quote a post, I'm assuming you are responding to the immediately previous post, but maybe you're referring to one of the other posts above?

[QuantumG]

That would fall under "employee violated a workplace rule" and therefore "termination with cause", as explicitly noted in the post you are replying to...

[EDIT] Since you didn't quote a post, I'm assuming you are responding to the immediately previous post, but maybe you're referring to one of the other posts above?

More agreeing with wolfpack. Some people seem to think that 50 employees getting fired at the same time is so amazing that it must be a layoff due to funding shortfalls or an economic downturn or.. something. Some companies just don't like carrying dead weight and like to remind their employees that performance is important. Don't like it? Don't work there.

[Galactic Penguin SST]

One small question: would there be such a long thread here had it been, say, Orbital that is the company involved?  (no offense to those at OSC  )

[edkyle99]

So, what you're saying is that if 50 employees are fired, at the same time, for watching inappropriate content at work, that's a "layoff" in California? What is this, some sort of solidarity overrides employment handbook law?

If you're fired for cause, you weren't laid off. It's not a complex concept.

This scenario only seems defensible to me if the company can show that ALL of the people it did not "fire" did not violate any similar work rules.  Seriously, what are the odds?

 - Ed Kyle

[Lar]

So, what you're saying is that if 50 employees are fired, at the same time, for watching inappropriate content at work, that's a "layoff" in California? What is this, some sort of solidarity overrides employment handbook law?

If you're fired for cause, you weren't laid off. It's not a complex concept.

This scenario only seems defensible to me if the company can show that ALL of the people it did not "fire" did not violate any similar work rules.  Seriously, what are the odds?

 - Ed Kyle

Failure to enforce a requirement does not waive the right to enforce the requirement later, typically. But IANALL (labor lawyer)

We're thrashing a bit. Unless new info is added from externally, perhaps best to see if your view has been stated, if not, state it, if so, abide?

[deltaV]

My wild guess is this lawsuit will come down to whether the terminated employees have skills in roughly the same areas as the people SpaceX hired in the months before and after the terminations. If SpaceX terminated a bunch of welders and hired a bunch of programmers that looks like a layoff---there was evidently a lack of work for the welders. If they terminated welders and hired new welders, or terminated from a wide variety of areas and hired in those same areas, it would be hard to support a claim it's a layoff.

[AJW]

A second suit has been filed.

'a former employee alleges that the rocket maker violated state labor laws by denying workers breaks and requiring them to work "off the clock."'

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tn-spacex-employee-lawsuit-20140812-story.html?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fbusiness+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)

[Lars_J]

Jeff Foust wrote a good summary of the two lawsuits here: http://www.newspacejournal.com/2014/08/13/spacex-facing-lawsuits-from-former-employees/

I find it interesting the the first lawsuit doesn't even have a solid count on the number of laid off people. 200-400? That wide range doesn't provide much confidence in the accuracy. Are the two individuals just filing based on internal or external rumors?!?

Nonetheless, we'll see what the courts decide, and/or if a settlement is reached. Employees should be treated fairly when laid off, even if 1 or 1000 were laid off at a time.

[newpylong]

Jeff Foust wrote a good summary of the two lawsuits here: http://www.newspacejournal.com/2014/08/13/spacex-facing-lawsuits-from-former-employees/

I find it interesting the the first lawsuit doesn't even have a solid count on the number of laid off people. 200-400? Are the two individuals just filing based on internal or external rumors?!? Nonetheless, we'll see what the courts decide, and/or if a settlement is reached.

200, 400 or anywhere in between does not effect the case.

Somehow they came to the conclusion enough were let go to trigger the WARN act in their opinion. I don't think it would be realistic for the class or their attorneys to have real numbers - it's not like SpaceX is going to turn that over without a court request.

[Jim]

A second suit has been filed.

'a former employee alleges that the rocket maker violated state labor laws by denying workers breaks and requiring them to work "off the clock."'

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tn-spacex-employee-lawsuit-20140812-story.html?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fbusiness+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)

The honeymoon is over

[Lars_J]

A second suit has been filed.

'a former employee alleges that the rocket maker violated state labor laws by denying workers breaks and requiring them to work "off the clock."'

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tn-spacex-employee-lawsuit-20140812-story.html?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fbusiness+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)

The honeymoon is over

It was over long ago. Now you are sounding just as reactionary as the "Gass was fired from ULA" folks.

[Borklund]

The honeymoon is over

Do you have any actual insight or are you just speculating on the media reports just like everyone else in here?

[Jim]

A second suit has been filed.

'a former employee alleges that the rocket maker violated state labor laws by denying workers breaks and requiring them to work "off the clock."'

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tn-spacex-employee-lawsuit-20140812-story.html?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fbusiness+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)

The honeymoon is over

It was over long ago. Now you are sounding just as reactionary as the "Gass was fired from ULA" folks.

No, this have been brewing for a long time. 

[Lars_J]

No, this have been brewing for a long time. 

Exactly - which is my point, that the honeymoon was over long ago. Grumblings from some SpaceX employees have percolated social media for a long time. A round of layoffs was inevitable at some point, they do occur in cycles in most corporations when the initial growth period comes to an end. So some sort of suit by some individuals was inevitable. It is no indication that the honeymoon is over *just now*.

[Jim]

Exactly - which is my point, that the honeymoon was over long ago. Grumblings from some SpaceX employees have percolated social media for a long time. A round of layoffs was inevitable at some point, they do occur in cycles in most corporations when the initial growth period comes to an end. So some sort of suit by some individuals was inevitable. It is no indication that the honeymoon is over *just now*.

My post was about the work hours suit and not the layoff.  Every place has grumblings and people quitting/resigning over work hours, few have suits on it.

[RonM]

There is an article on CNN about the lawsuits.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/13/news/companies/spacex-lawsuits/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Elmar Moelzer]

There is an article on CNN about the lawsuits.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/13/news/companies/spacex-lawsuits/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Funny that if SpaceX does a successful launch, CNN wont bother reporting it, but a lawsuit makes the headlines...

[strangequark]

There is an article on CNN about the lawsuits.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/13/news/companies/spacex-lawsuits/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Funny that if SpaceX does a successful launch, CNN wont bother reporting it, but a lawsuit makes the headlines...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/29/us/spacex-new-spacecraft/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/18/us/spacex-dragon-launch/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/03/tech/innovation/spacex-launch/

SpaceX doesn't exactly suffer from a lack of positive media coverage...

[abaddon]

My post was about the work hours suit and not the layoff.  Every place has grumblings and people quitting/resigning over work hours, few have suits on it.

I can't comment on the rocket industry, but in the tech industry these things are not uncommon.