Author Topic: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video  (Read 160705 times)

Offline GregA

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #300 on: 08/09/2014 11:51 PM »
I've made a draft update to my video combining Orbcomm, CRS restore, the animation - to add the landing video.

I'm having trouble working out a few things. In my mind I've split the landing video into 4 segments
1) blur
2) long distance cloud shot... can't see much
3) fast decent through cloud
4) landing

So what's in #2? Is there anything worth showing?

#3 is before engine ignition, but the current side mounted camera has a lengthy shot of the engines firing, so coming through the clouds must be at least 20 seconds before #4 starts. Is that right?

- I've added and cropped in #3
- I've added cropped and stabilised #4.
- sped up the stage 1 decent animation to match the real shot speed
- sped up the grasshopper side mount (it's much slower than the stage 1)
(no speed changes to any actual landing shots of course!)
- removed the music from the beginning but kept the second music+audio because the Orbcomm video has audio of the engines. There's now no sound of thrusters while in orbit.

One big question is ... what's the timing on the landing shot? The smoke/vapour starts much earlier in the new video than in the side mounted cameras, so I presume that the "close-up" side cameras simply don't see the same vapour (just like when you're in a cloud you don't really see it) - instead they see as the thrust hits water.

Lastly... do I need a slo-mo copy of the final 20 seconds? There's a lot happening.
Any suggestions for improvements would be welcome!

(newer version of video below)
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 02:43 AM by GregA »

Offline mvpel

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Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #301 on: 08/10/2014 12:54 AM »
Epic!

Is the Orbcomm external and internal lined up? The external sploosh starts earlier than the internal sploosh, but I wonder if that might be steam that's not visible to the internal camera, rather than the actual sploosh. In the restoration one of the iframes showed the beginning of the disturbance on the surface of the water.

The "MVac ignition" call comes what seems like a beat or two too much later than the ignition of the MVac.

There's websites that you can use to generate music - maybe ujam.com?
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 12:57 AM by mvpel »
"Ugly programs are like ugly suspension bridges: they're much more liable to collapse than pretty ones, because the way humans (especially engineer-humans) perceive beauty is intimately related to our ability to process and understand complexity. A language that makes it hard to write elegant code makes it hard to write good code." - Eric S. Raymond

Offline ugordan

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #302 on: 08/10/2014 01:02 AM »
The external sploosh starts earlier than the internal sploosh, but I wonder if that might be steam that's not visible to the internal camera, rather than the actual sploosh.

I'm thinking the last few seconds of the external video are actually slowed down from realtime. SpaceX has widely used 60 fps capable cameras for launch and -related videos. If the footage is being played back at 30 fps it would make sense for it to appears to last 2x as long.

Come to think of it, the entirety of that Jurvetson's video might have been running at 1/2 speed, we have no way of knowing.
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 01:20 AM by ugordan »

Offline GregA

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #303 on: 08/10/2014 01:08 AM »
Epic!

Is the Orbcomm external and internal lined up?

Thanks :)

That's the trouble I'm having. It's really easy to just line up the beginning of the vapour on both shots ... but the engine hitting the water is way off time. So I'm hoping for some advice on whether I'm lining up right, or how to better do it.

Quote
The "MVac ignition" call comes what seems like a beat or two too much later than the ignition of the MVac.

I'll take a look...
Actually that's the audio directly connected to that shot so timing was actual (though as he starts speaking I cut to a different shot)

Quote
There's websites that you can use to generate music - maybe ujam.com?
Youtube has some free stuff too. I think it'd be worth adding if I remove the second song, otherwise it's quite a short duration of 'silence' anyway. Youtube also has a beta system to try to extract the music without affecting the rest of the audio... so I could keep the engine sounds and change the song if it works.

I'm thinking the last few seconds of the external video are actually slowed down from realtime. SpaceX has widely used 60 fps cameras for launch and Grasshopper-related videos. If the footage is being played back at 30 fps it would make sense for it to appears to last 2x as long.

Yeah that might be it.... damn it's so short already... I'll change the speed to see.

Offline GregA

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #304 on: 08/10/2014 01:23 AM »
Hmm. No it's not a half speed thing. Or at least if it is there's more to it.

I doubled the speed and it can almost line up - but it still starts earlier than the side mounted cameras and the engine is still going when the side cameras show the engine is out.

There is a different characteristic to the long distance mist - it seems to start quite large then grow, rather than grow from a point like the side camera infers.

I'm leaning more towards it being a thin mist. A thin mist in the shape of a disc wouldn't be visible from the side when the disc is small, only once it gets to a certain size that makes you look through a fair bit of mist. And a thin mist viewed vertically through the disc will not be visible. But I'm stretching!

Offline mvpel

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #305 on: 08/10/2014 02:03 AM »
If you look at the AS-8 launch you get a good understanding of how long the exhaust plume is in the dark - and the OG-2 launch showed the umbilicals flapping in the plume, giving an idea of how far the effects reach.
"Ugly programs are like ugly suspension bridges: they're much more liable to collapse than pretty ones, because the way humans (especially engineer-humans) perceive beauty is intimately related to our ability to process and understand complexity. A language that makes it hard to write elegant code makes it hard to write good code." - Eric S. Raymond

Offline GregA

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #306 on: 08/10/2014 02:41 AM »
Hmm.
The resolution and quality is bad, but there appears to be another vapour/donut that starts later. Basically the mist disc is quite thin, then a second thicker disc starts. Very subtle.

If I line that up with the side camera it is almost perfect....

To the viewer... I don't think they'll pick a difference though.

(btw: Youtube can remove audio very well! Any suggestions for music welcome :) )

« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 02:42 AM by GregA »

Online guckyfan

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #307 on: 08/10/2014 05:25 AM »
Hmm.
The resolution and quality is bad, but there appears to be another vapour/donut that starts later. Basically the mist disc is quite thin, then a second thicker disc starts. Very subtle.


Wonderful work, thanks a lot.

Offline Ohsin

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #308 on: 08/10/2014 11:37 AM »
(btw: Youtube can remove audio very well! Any suggestions for music welcome :) )

May be use music by Kevin MacLeod who did SpaceX broadcast score.


Royalty free CC 3.0 licensed
http://incompetech.com/music/

EDIT: Ok i am not sure if Kevin did that but still free music on that site!
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 11:46 AM by Ohsin »
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Offline GregA

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Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #309 on: 08/10/2014 01:49 PM »
Thanks for that ohsin, I looked there and think I found something. I'll add tomorrow and see how it sounds :)
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 01:50 PM by GregA »

Offline Jdeshetler

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #310 on: 08/10/2014 07:10 PM »
How about "The Blue Danube" and it is free... ;)

https://archive.org/details/BlueDanubeWaltz
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 07:13 PM by Jdeshetler »

Offline LouScheffer

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #311 on: 08/11/2014 12:23 PM »

That's essentially what you do with face throttling.  You have to avoid pump stall, but that just means throttling the GG, which is how the Merlin apparently does it. 

http://jasc-controls.com/jasc-industry-listing/space/space-fluid-management/bi-propellant-valve/
The spec specifically states the valve is used on the vacuum Merlin.  Any idea why they would use a different valve on the second stage?

Offline MP99




That's essentially what you do with face throttling.  You have to avoid pump stall, but that just means throttling the GG, which is how the Merlin apparently does it. 

http://jasc-controls.com/jasc-industry-listing/space/space-fluid-management/bi-propellant-valve/
The spec specifically states the valve is used on the vacuum Merlin.  Any idea why they would use a different valve on the second stage?

Vac throttles more deeply than SL variant.

SL may need to do more rapid adjustments to throttle during landing?

Cheers, Martin

Offline Mangala

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #313 on: 08/12/2014 06:58 PM »
Hmm.
The resolution and quality is bad, but there appears to be another vapour/donut that starts later. Basically the mist disc is quite thin, then a second thicker disc starts. Very subtle.

If I line that up with the side camera it is almost perfect....

To the viewer... I don't think they'll pick a difference though.

(btw: Youtube can remove audio very well! Any suggestions for music welcome :)

Very good and nice job. :)

Thus, if i can suggest, maybe you can replaced some parts of the reusable spacecraft animation (at maxQ in this case) by some parts of this:

Offline GregA

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #314 on: 08/12/2014 10:47 PM »
Good idea :)

Offline meadows.st

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #315 on: 08/14/2014 06:47 PM »
Hmm.
The resolution and quality is bad, but there appears to be another vapour/donut that starts later. Basically the mist disc is quite thin, then a second thicker disc starts. Very subtle.

If I line that up with the side camera it is almost perfect....


Unbelievably gorgeous not to mention significant and an interesting tool for further informed speculation on the recover-ability of the first stage from the water!  Well done.

The external view of the Orbcomm "alightment" is spectacular to see in context with the down-facing inter-stage camera.  I want to view that video in more detail because the F9S1 appears to settle much deeper in the water than I initially expected it would (based on the expected landing vertical velocity and soda can hypothesis for buoyancy and overall density).  I will look at the external video in more detail and see what can be gleaned from it.


ADDED: Looks like I am not the only one. :)
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35410.msg1243183#msg1243183
« Last Edit: 08/17/2014 04:37 AM by meadows.st »
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Offline MTom

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #316 on: 09/07/2014 07:47 PM »
Has anybody in remind if we have the time of the first stage reignition?

On the recent flight (Asiasat 6) we could hear at 7:07: "(first?)stage reignition".
Only for checking whether the time is matching with Orbcomm first stage relight.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35554.msg1252112#msg1252112
« Last Edit: 09/07/2014 07:57 PM by MTom »

Offline Noah

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #317 on: 09/09/2014 04:07 AM »
I don't think the times would match, because Orbcomm was Leo and asiasat was gto. But they say 1st stage relighting on Cassiope. You should watch that again.

Online mwfair


time    alt  speed range  note
         km   mps   km
+1:00    13  450     2.5     
+2:20    54  1400    21     
+2:25                40    sep
+9:23     ?   ?    ?         retro burn 
+11:12    ?   ?    ?         landing burn
+11:43    ?   0    330     kaboom 

Mike Fair

Offline MTom

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #319 on: 09/09/2014 07:41 PM »
Orbcomm was significantly lighter than AsiaSat6.
I have nothing to do with rockets but I would guess the first stage needed some throttling down and therefore a longer flight of the first stage. It would explain the difference. Or am I wrong with it?

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