Author Topic: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video  (Read 159070 times)

Offline mvpel

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #100 on: 07/23/2014 12:48 AM »
Incidentally, here is the Blue Origin patent with the sea going platform:
http://www.google.com/patents/US8678321

They patented reusing space launch vehicles? Am I reading this right?  ::) They patented retropropulsion burns to deorbit a booster?  ::) Talk about "prior art...:
"Ugly programs are like ugly suspension bridges: they're much more liable to collapse than pretty ones, because the way humans (especially engineer-humans) perceive beauty is intimately related to our ability to process and understand complexity. A language that makes it hard to write elegant code makes it hard to write good code." - Eric S. Raymond

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #101 on: 07/23/2014 12:53 AM »
It's pretty clear what they're patenting: a system for a vertical landing booster and a barge to talk to each other.

I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #102 on: 07/23/2014 01:05 AM »
Jack-up rig prices:
https://www.rigzone.com/data/dayrates/

I don't think there are likely to be any nearby, though. Might have to buy one.

Good ones aren't cheap, but it doesn't need to be terribly high performance.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline mwfair

The discussion of possible future landing tactics is all OT.
I realize that the video gives very little to talk about, but it deserves its own thread undiluted by topics covered elsewhere.  I am interested in comments on event timing, datalink quality, video encoding, etc.
Mike Fair

Offline bilbo

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #104 on: 07/23/2014 01:11 AM »
I'm curious, is this the camera smashing through the inter-stage?  ???
I don't really know what this could be other than that.

edit; then to than. :)
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 01:19 AM by bilbo »

Offline mwfair

The video doesn't seem to show any data link drop outs, or any bit flips, or even any visible macroblocks!  Is it possible that this was extracted from on-board storage?
Mike Fair

Offline slavim

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #106 on: 07/23/2014 01:34 AM »
I'm curious, is this the camera smashing through the inter-stage?  ???
I don't really know what this could be other than that.

edit; then to than. :)

Whoa, what a fantastic find. It certainly looks like it but I'm not sure how it could be so lit up.

Offline AJW

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #107 on: 07/23/2014 01:35 AM »
From the update on the SpaceX site:

"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."

If Flight 13 is indeed CRS-4, the 'low probability of success' may be their goal of recovering a stage landing in the ocean.  They may have concluded that toppling a 200' stage and expecting it to stay intact is just not in the cards.  Another possibility is that they may use the opportunity to try grid-fins and don't expect success during the early trials.

Offline Jdeshetler

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #108 on: 07/23/2014 03:10 AM »
I'm curious, is this the camera smashing through the inter-stage?  ???
I don't really know what this could be other than that.

edit; then to than. :)

Maybe there is other camera video feed like this during Apollo that somehow end up in the last frame, there might be several cameras at once and only one is for public viewing?

Offline CameronD

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #109 on: 07/23/2014 03:11 AM »
The video doesn't seem to show any data link drop outs, or any bit flips, or even any visible macroblocks!  Is it possible that this was extracted from on-board storage?

No idea.. but it would indeed be nice to know if they followed any of the recommendations from the team here this time around eg. non-interlaced video, etc.

Can anyone confirm this from what has been released - or would you need the full transport stream?
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 03:32 AM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Comga

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #110 on: 07/23/2014 03:27 AM »
A few notes:
...
3. The rocket plumes are oddly patterned in this video, with a series of parallel "interference patterns", no doubt due to the arrangement of the three firing engines.
...
You noticed that too!

It's a point source variation of the Young's Three Slit optical experiment.  Some here may have seen the two slit version in high school or college done with a laser.  The three slit version produces bright dots with faint dots between them.  Here there are long, bright lines and shorter, less bright lines.

The same pattern was evident in the CASSIOPE retro-burn footage.

It's a feature!
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Tonioroffo

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #111 on: 07/23/2014 05:41 AM »
Concrete floats, right?
Concrete ships do

Actually, Pykrete does!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete - here's a far fetched option for landing ;)

edit: off-topic, mod can remove, sorry :/
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 05:47 AM by Tonioroffo »

Offline laika_fr

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #112 on: 07/23/2014 06:09 AM »
First news from mass media :

SpaceX Releases Amazing Video of Falcon Rocket's Splashdown
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/spacex-releases-amazing-video-falcon-rockets-splashdown-n162506

This will end-up on the New York Times front page by next fall  8)
a shrubbery on Mars

Offline su27k

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #113 on: 07/23/2014 06:19 AM »
I don't think you need floating platform to demo "pin point accuracy", just a set of GPS coordinates should be enough to convince the authorities, at most you need a floating beacon, platform is overkill.

As for CRS-4 landing's "low probability of success", based on pure speculation, it could be they don't have the enhanced RCS on that flight.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 06:42 AM by su27k »

Offline Joel

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #114 on: 07/23/2014 06:42 AM »
One implication of the news that they only plan one more ocean 'landing' before trying to land on land, is that the next ocean landing attempt (flight #13 - presumably next CRS mission) will have to demonstrate a pinpoint landing. So presumably that will be the first flight with the grid fins installed.
Makes sense to demonstrate pinpoint accuracy on the next ocean flight. I think that means a different landing algorithm. More specifically, a predictive controller with the terminal state equality constraints being a one-dimensional set (rotation) instead of a three-dimensional set (rotation + translation).

Offline CameronD

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #115 on: 07/23/2014 06:56 AM »
As for CRS-4 landing's "low probability of success", based on pure speculation, it could be they don't have the enhanced RCS on that flight.

..or it could just be that "body-slam/kaboom" is now an integral part of the flight plan. ;)
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline TrevorMonty

There was some talk about the center core of a FH not being able to return the launch site because it will be too far downrange at staging.  Makes me think they’re building a floating platform for landing the center core of the (then safing it and lowering it to horizontal and shipping it back) and they’ll use that for floating recovery of the F9 stage.
I read some where that the FH can deliver 7T to GT0 with all 3 boosters recoverable, I think they all stage at same time. At +7T the middle booster will have to do a down range recovery.

With FH delivering most of GTO  payloads we are going to see a lot of FH launches with the boosters being reused multiple times, especially as launches that require a booster/s to be expended will be far and few between.

Originally I expected recovered F9 boosters to be lost on next expendable launch but sounds there may not be any ELV launches for F9.

Offline deruch

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #117 on: 07/23/2014 09:39 AM »
Reddit user/__R__ posted this over on the SpaceX sub.  I thought it was cool and people here might find it interesting also:



Pretty unbelievable timing!
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline mikelepage

This post does come to the topic - bear with me :)

I know I saw somewhere (maybe for CRS-3) an exclusion zone map for the second stage coming down off the coast of Western Australia.  Being a resident of Perth WA, I began wondering if SpaceX is likely to attempt to build landing pad(s) somewhere near me, (or maybe if it will be more efficient to give the second stage just enough of an extra boost so it comes down somewhere near Florida after the first full orbit)

Any second stages returning to land on current trajectories would have to come down somewhere on the WA coast.  This could be anywhere within several 1000 kilometers depending on the orbital inclination they are launching to, but since the Cape is ~28N 80W and Perth is ~32S 115E (ie almost directly opposite each other), it figures that if they were going to build a pad they must have somewhere nearby in mind.

The problem will probably be that the entire southern half of the WA coast has pristine beaches and marine parks virtually all the way along it.  There have been many environmental activist vs mining industry fights in recent years and no environmental authority here is just going to rubber stamp that kind of development, even *with* evidence of pinpoint landings.  Then there's the fact that the coast is fairly densely populated south of Geralton (>28.7S) and the northern coast has powerful mining interests (they already vetoed the fledgling Christmas Island Spaceport plans because of overflight concerns).
 
Long story short, I suspect the easiest and best option for landing the second stage is going to be a floating platform ship based in Fremantle (the port of Perth).  That way they will be able to move it to wherever it is most convenient to bring the second stage down, bring it back to port, and transfer it to another ship for transport back to the US.  Any experience landing the first stage on floating platforms is going to pay dividends when it comes to recovering the second stage, which will be easier to recover this way due to being smaller.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 09:48 AM by mikelepage »

Offline luinil

Or they way that it's orbit bring it back near the launch aera.

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